Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject: 3:7
Hello All,
3:7 causes a lot of confusion to the secterian Muslims, they totally mistunderstood the last part in it regarding who will know the meaning of the delibertly inserted "Mutashabihat verses" which means "allegorical verses"
Letlook at 3:7 in great details:
He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:nd none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.
هُوَ الَّذِيَ أَنزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُّحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ في قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاء الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاء تَأْوِيلِهِ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلاَّ اللّهُ وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِّنْ عِندِ رَبِّنَا وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلاَّ أُوْلُواْ الألْبَابِ (7)
[The Quran ; 3:7]
-> هُوَ الَّذِيَ أَنزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ, He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book, The Quran is referred to as Al Kitab, i.e. Al Kitab in verse 3:7 means 100% Al Quran, i.e. Al Quran was sent down to Mohammad by Allah.
-> مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُّحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ, In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book:, another clear sentence, Allah is saying to Mohammad and anyone who will read the Quran, in this book there are verses basics or fundamental of established meaning, 3:7 must be one of those as we will see while walking through it, some thought that 3:7 is a Mutashabihat verse, I even thought the same previously, but I quickly managed to understand that 3:7 canbe Mutashabihat, because it is actually telling us the fact that there are Mutashabihat verses, 3:7 also tells why the Mutashabihat verses were included in the Quran by Allah. Humans may expect that a book of guidance should be as clear as it can get, which I agree, however letnot to forget that the Quran is also used to test everyone, i.e. it is a guidance (Muhkamat) and a test (Mutashabihat) at the same time, this is an awesome planning by the Al Mighty Allah, we read in the Quran there will be Muhkamat verses, we didnread that All the Quran will be Muhkamat verses, those Muhkamat verses were also described as Umma Al Kitab, i.e. the foundation of the book, therefore the context suggest to the believers that the Muhkamat are the ones that they should care about, what about the rest of the Quran then?:
-> وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ, others are allegorical, here is the rest of the Quran, the other portion of the Quran verses are Mutashabihat, i.e. allegorical, i.e. hard to understand, i.e. confusing because it can have more than one meaning, this is not coincidence, it is part of the plan as Allah has told us that He included those allegorical verses in the Quran, now it is about time to ask why He did that?, we donneed to look any where, we only need to continue reading the verse:
-> فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ في قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاء الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاء تَأْوِيلِهِ, But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its meanings,, the mighty plan objective is revealed, those deliberately inserted allegorical verses are there to expose those in whose hearts is perversity (believers or not, it applies to all), because those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings.
There is a very important hint in here, for those seeking discord, in which community there are seeking that discord?, it has to be within the believers community, therefore we have a double test in hand, a test for the unbelievers to see if they will seek discord by speculating the different meanings of those Mutashabihat verses, and another test for the believers to expose who will follow that discord, it can also be considered a test to the unbelievers who donsearch for the meanings of these verses neither seek discord between the believers, it will be a test for them exactly like the believers to see if they will follow that discord or not. This is awesome planning, it may sound not fair at the first glance, but if we consider the following, I guess it has to be fair:
In this life, this is how a tester creates a test, he/she includes in the test a bit of tricky questions, he/she never tell us what sort of tricks it will be included though, and yet the process is fair and square to all, in the case of this life test, The Tester Allah has told us in advance what the trick is 3:7, THIS IS FAIRNESS AT ITS MAX, WHAT IS STRICKING, MANY STILL LISTEN TO THAT DISCORD THEN FOLLOW IT AS WE SEE ON FM WEB SITE AND ON MANY OTHER WEB SITES.
-> وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلاَّ اللّهُ, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah, here is the denial that NO ONE WILL KNOW THE MEANING EXCEPT ALLAH, some people who try to twist the meaning of this crystal clear verse by saying there is a Waw after Allah which means And, i.e. what will follow the Waw should share the action with Allah, the action here is knowing the meaning of those Mutashabihat verses, this is 100% wrong as I will prove LOGICALLY SPEAKING, but we must take note that this bit also started with a Waw, this does not mean it is sharing what was before it, this is clear from the context before it, the Waw was translated But however Waw means And, it is also common knowledge in the Arabic language to start a new sentence with a Waw, EXACTLY AS THIS SENTENCE AND THE ONE AFTER IT AND THE ONE AFTER THE ONE AFTER IT as we will see next.
-> وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِّنْ عِندِ رَبِّنَا, And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:b:432ac5384f], here is a new sentence started with a Waw, and clearly means that the ones with knowledge will believe in both Muhkamat and Mutashabihat verses as BOTH FROM OUR GOD, WHY THEY SAY THAT, IF THEY MANAGED TO UNDERSTAND THE TRUE MEANINGS OF THOSE MUTSHABIHAT VERSES?, the Mutashabihat verses should be Muhkamat for them, arenthey have the knowledge to know it?, yet they referred to them as BOTH, see, this is the logical refute to those who claim the people with knowledge will also crack these Mutashabihat verses and know its true meanings along with Allah, I guess they are mixed up in what Rasikhoon fi Alilm means, they think the knowledge may be science or similar, but quite the contrary the Ilm mentioned in the verse means knowing Allah, nothing more as science doesnfit in the description of the people with knowledge, because we can see an illiterate human who knows Allah far better than Einstein, what is important also is this: if the knowledgeable people share the action with Allah in knowing the meaning of the Mutashabihat verses then Allah must share the action of saying يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِّنْ عِندِ رَبِّنَا , i.e. We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:b:432ac5384f], see, this alone should demolish that non sensible claim and clear cut manipulation that those with knowledge will understand the meaning of the Mutashabihat verses along with Allah, because Allah should not say: We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord: along with them.
-> وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلاَّ أُوْلُواْ الألْبَابِ, and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding., this bit started again with a Waw, as an indication of a new sentence, and it can be understood as being part of what the people with knowledge said or just another message from Allah, this two meanings of this bit canmake 3:7 Mutashabihat as in either case Allah or Al Rasikhoon fi Al Ilm who is saying it, the message is clear that: and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.
Clear from the above that Allah deliberately inserted Mutashabihat verses to test all of us and He told us in advance about the trick and it is clear that the verse canbe Mutashabihat because every bit in it is clearly understood and makes great sense within the whole Quran context, the trick outcome as told to us is simply, some will try to search for its meanings seeking discord, others will listen to that discord and the true believers in Allah will just take it as from Allah without searching into its Mutashabihat meanings and they just accept both Mutashabihat and Muhkamat verses as from Allah
Finally how we can know that a verse is Mutashabih?, simply if we find that it can give two contradictory meanings, or two meanings that totally different and can cause confusion, like marrying 4 women for example in verse 4:3, I actually see this Mutashabih verse was overwritten by other Muhkam verses in the same sura that told us men canbe fair with more than one woman hence it ordered us to marry only one, and we can see how the Mutashabih 4:3 verse causes a lot of back fire and confusion within the Muslims who want to justify their action of polygamy in many different ways as they interpreted verse (4:3) according to their low desires, the fact of the matter is we donneed that verse to find out if we should marry 4 or not, because the moment we discover the possibly contradictory meaning in it we should stop chasing its meaning as 3:7 told, However Allah didnleave us confused with the Mutashabih verse 4:3 that relates to serious matter which is marriage He told us later to marry only one and even why we should marry only one.
Salam
Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Sun 31 Jan, 2010 6:31 am; edited 2 times in total
Posted:
Fri 03 Nov, 2006 4:00 pm
SlaveofAllaah Site Admin
Status: Age: 42 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 25, 2006
Posts: 184 Location: Riyadh
Post subject:
Good article, with the last paragraph, just got to research with my limitied knowledge it was as a mercy to the Arabs at that time who used to have more then 10 and in some cases more than that.
One of the Sahabi had 11 wives after this verse was revealed he divorced rest 7.
but a good explanation as 4:3 and 4:129 are different
Posted:
Fri 03 Nov, 2006 5:06 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
SlaveofAllaah wrote:
Good article, with the last paragraph, just got to research with my limitied knowledge it was as a mercy to the Arabs at that time who used to have more then 10 and in some cases more than that.
One of the Sahabi had 11 wives after this verse was revealed he divorced rest 7.
but a good explanation as 4:3 and 4:129 are different
Salam mate,
Here is the rest of my article if you would like to examine it with me:
This is a verse that I classify one of those Mutashabihat verses mnetioned in 3:7, the reason is simply as follow:
1) It is the only verse that discusses polygamy, i.e. we can't use the Quran to explain it
2) There are many different understandings, some clearly conflict with the spirit of the Quran (Especially Regarding Orphans)
3) Because the verse is talking about an important law and is also Mutashabihat, the law in it was overwritten with another law, IRONICALLY, the other law is in the same verse (Subhan Allah):
"If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.)
[The Quran ; 4:3]
وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تُقْسِطُواْ فِي الْيَتَامَى فَانكِحُواْ مَا طَابَ لَكُم مِّنَ النِّسَاء مَثْنَى وَثُلاَثَ وَرُبَاعَ فَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تَعْدِلُواْ فَوَاحِدَةً أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ ذَلِكَ أَدْنَى أَلاَّ تَعُولُواْ (3)
-> The verse started with a problem related to the orphans: If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans'?, the first impression is Orphans means "Orphaned boys and girls?, others say the orphans in the verse means Orphaned girls only?, they also suggest those orphaned girls are ready for marriage i.e. orphaned women, the problem in hand which is fearing to be just to the orphans is also understood differently by others, some suggest by not taking good care of them, others suggest to be specifically relating to the orphaned women who are ready to marry and they have wealth and the men fear after marrying them not to be just by joining the orphened women wealth with theirs.
This is a very stranage indeed, we need all that assumptions for their understanding to be true, i.e.:
1) 4:3 is only talking about orphaned women
2) those orphaned women are ready for marriage
3) those orphaned wemen are wealthy
I believe they based their understanding on the previous verse:
" To orphans restore their property (When they reach their age), nor substitute (your) worthless things for (their) good ones; and devour not their property (by mixing it up) with your own. For this is indeed a great sin.
[The Quran ; 4:2]
وَآتُواْ الْيَتَامَى أَمْوَالَهُمْ وَلاَ تَتَبَدَّلُواْ الْخَبِيثَ بِالطَّيِّبِ وَلاَ تَأْكُلُواْ أَمْوَالَهُمْ إِلَى أَمْوَالِكُمْ إِنَّهُ كَانَ حُوبًا كَبِيرًا (2)
-> Again 4:2 only mentioned the Orphans in general '????Boys and Girls:, Allah is advising us : To orphans restore their property (When they reach their age), nor substitute (your) worthless things for (their) good ones; and devour not their property (by mixing it up) with your own. For this is indeed a great sin.?, the verse NEVER EVER stated that it is a case of marriage that we should not mix the orphaned property with ours when we marry them,
-> 4:2 is very clear and is not mutashabihat, they only selected a specific case that should be covered under the general rule of not abusing the property of the Orphans, I guess they were trying to prove their understanding to 4:3 that it meant this case of not being fair with the orphaned women, what is stricking that what they try to convince us with regarding marrying the orphaned women IS MENTIOJED EXACTLY AS THEY SAID IN 4:127, here it is:
" And they ask you a decision about women. Say: Allah makes known to you His decision concerning them, and that which is recited to you in the Book concerning female orphans whom you do not give what is appointed for them while you desire to marry them, and concerning the weak among children, and that you should deal towards orphans with equity; and whatever good you do, Allah surely knows it. "
وَيَسْتَفْتُونَكَ فِي النِّسَاء قُلِ اللّهُ يُفْتِيكُمْ فِيهِنَّ وَمَا يُتْلَى عَلَيْكُمْ فِي الْكِتَابِ فِي يَتَامَى النِّسَاء الَّلاتِي لاَ تُؤْتُونَهُنَّ مَا كُتِبَ لَهُنَّ وَتَرْغَبُونَ أَن تَنكِحُوهُنَّ وَالْمُسْتَضْعَفِينَ مِنَ الْوِلْدَانِ وَأَن تَقُومُواْ لِلْيَتَامَى بِالْقِسْطِ وَمَا تَفْعَلُواْ مِنْ خَيْرٍ فَإِنَّ اللّهَ كَانَ بِهِ عَلِيمًا (127) [The Quran ; 4:127]
-> See, but the problem is, I see no relation whatsoever between 4:3 and 4:127, neither 4:3 and 4:2, however it is still a possibility as there is nothing firm from the Quran to refute it, I guess it can be relative here, even relative regarding what orphans means, some may say losing any of the parents, some say they lost both their parents, another confusing matter
-> Now after we saw that the problem in hand is very confusing and can have more than one meaning, we will also find that the solution proposed is confusing and can have more than one meaning: Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four;?, ok, whom exactly they will marry?, is it :
1) Any other woman
2) The mother of the orphans, or
3) Another woman but must not be an orphaned women
Again each one can possibly apply with a percentage according to the logic, we may sense that one option has a higher possibility than the other, but all three options still have a percentage even if it is 1%
-> How Allah do this to us? I mean we have a serious problem in hand which was not very clear and the solution is even not clearer, but what we can sense that the solution is good for men and bad for women, I guess most men know that, and I guess most of them will also be in the favour of marrying more than one, but hold on a second horny men, the solution was conditioned:? but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or that your right hands possess?, now we have a mutashabihat condition as well, I guess the condition can be mutashabihat because some men may think they can be fair with women hence they will go for marrying more than 1, and others will never even think about it and just marry more than one, it doesnt matter for them if they will deal justly and equally with their wives, in fact they always lean not to be and even deliberately
-> I found it amazing that we have the following a mutashabihat problem, a mutashabihat solution and a mutashabihat condition all fell in one verse that I call mutashabihat verse, however verse 4:129 in the same sura demolish the mutashabihat condition and takes it out of the human judgment:
"Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire...... "
وَلَن تَسْتَطِيعُواْ أَن تَعْدِلُواْ بَيْنَ النِّسَاء وَلَوْ حَرَصْتُمْ (129) [The Quran ; 4:129]
-> Here we go, clearly Allah is telling us in the above Muhkam verse that: ? Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire?, therefore, this important piece of information in this Muhkam verse should force the mutashabihat condition in 4:3, and should make our fear not to treat our multiple wives equally and justly a reality and a fact as well we were told that there no way out of it we will always be unfair to mutiple wives, it is in the Hu_Man nature.
I can't lie and say that I didn't try to chase the meaning of 4:3, but my chase was only to see where all other understanding are coming from, NOT TO FIOLLOW ANY OF THEM, as my decision was already made according to 4:129 in conjunction with 4:3 that true submitters to Allah from the men race should only marry ONE
Therefore 4:3 for me is a mutashabihat verse by design but it still virtually a muhkam verse because it complies with 3:7, when I say it complies perfectly with 3:7 I meant the following:
1) The enemy of Islam used the verse to cause discord between the believers and the others to show that our religion is sort of a lusty one
2) Many of the believers followed different understandings because it will work in their favours that way
3) Seeing the solution practised in my culture and even in my family then realizing The discord? and the horrible effects it brings on the wives and the children, made me believe it is not practised right, I hardly see polygamy practised for the sake of orphans anyway, I only see it practised because of lust or because husbands got sick of their aging wives, yet I hardly see any polygamy that is working in a peaceful environment between the parties involved
And my strongest argument is: it is obvious that 4:129 overwrites 4:3 therefore there is no need to chase the meaning of the mutashabihat bits in 4:3 after the decision is already made to follow the muhakm verse 4:129 and not to follow any of the different understandings for 4:3
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