Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Salam all
I would like to do the exact same regarding the times of the prayers chapter that is found in Bukhari hearsay book, I want to know if Bukhari has anything different to what Ibn Magih has in his hearsay book
I looked at Bukhari book index and it seems he dedicated two chapters to the prayer, one for the prayers and the other for the times of the prayers as seen below in the red box:
Thumbnail, click to enlarge.
I will concentrate for now of the chapter dedicated to the times of the prayer, as you know already that Ibn Magih book has 13 sub chapters under the prayers times chapter, Bukhari however has far more sub chapters under his prayers times chapters, his book has 41 sub chapters as seen below:
Thumbnail, click to enlarge.
Thumbnail, click to enlarge.
So what I'm going to do is to go through all the hadith included in all these 41 sub chapters and by the end of it we should see if we learn something from it or not, a lot of work indeed, but willl be done inshaalllah
Salam for now
Posted:
Wed 23 Apr, 2008 8:28 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Salam all
Let me start walking through all the hearsay hadith Bukhari included in all sub chapters under the main chapter The times of the preyers
-> Ibn Magih included something similar to this hadith by Bukhari, hadith # 491 above alleges that one day Omar Ibn Abdulaziz delayed one of the prayers, so another man questioned his actions by saying that he should know that Jebril came down then prayed and Mohammed prayed, then he repeated it 5 times, an indication of the 5 salats, in a way he was trying to provide an argument against Omar Ibn Abdulaziz that he should not delay any of the prayers. Omar replied to him by saying I know what you are talking about, then the hadith ended in a very vague way by mentioning that Aysha said the prophet used to pray Zuhr and Asr while the sun is in her room
-> Can you see that the so called hadith above is not even a saying by the prophet, total confusion, man, the hadith told us nothing about the times of the prayers nor its reward as mister Bukhari told us in his title of the first sub chapter, the hadith is noting but exposing an alleged conflict between Omar Ibn Abdulaziz and another man named Arwa, when Arwa questioned him that Omar should not delay any of the prayers, what is so laughable through that in the hadith there is nothing that was provided by both Omar and Arwa to support their stand:
-> Arwa presented two hearsay evidences:
1) Jebril came down and prayed 5 times and the prophet prayed behind him
2) Aysha alleged that the prophet prayed Zuhr and Asr while the sun is in her room
-> Omar Ibn Abdulaziz presented nothing but:
1) His concession that he knows that Jebril came down and prayed 5 times while the prophet prayed behind him
-> The whole sub chapter # 1 must be dismissed, simply because:
1) It never told us what it suppose to tell us which as Bukhari named the sub chapter: The times of the prayers and its reward, i.e. it failed to tell us:
A) The times of the prayers
B) The reward of keeping the prayers on time
Sub chapter # 2: The saying of Allah (Exalted He is) when he said, Humbling to him, Fearing Him and Standing up for the prayer�?????�????�???�??�?�¢?�?????�????�???�??�?�¦.
-> Hadith # 492 by Bukhari is a strange hadith, it alleges that some people came to the prophet asking him to tell them an advice that should stay with them all year long (metaphor) because they only see him once a year when they come and do Hajj, they want to learn from him as well teach others what they learnt, it was alleged that the prophet told them: I command you with 4 and forbid you of 4, I command you:
1) Belief (he explained that it means believe in Allah and believe that Mohammed is His messenger)
2) Stand up for the prayer
3) Pay the poor-due (Zakat)
4) Give me 1/5 of any booty you may posses
And I forbid you of 4: Aldbaa and Alhantum and Almaqir and Alnaqir
-> I could not really translate those very tough Arabic words, see how the hadith Arabic language is very tough unlike the Arabic used in the Quran, I will take it that the 4 things which was alleged that prophet forbade are really bad things and until I know what those 4 Arabic words mean for certain, I have to shut up, I can guess their meanings but that will be hearsay, let me just concentrate on the 4 things that were alleged to be commanded by the prophet for them to learn it and pass it on to others, they are:
1) Belief (he explained that it means believe in Allah and believe that Mohammed is His messenger)
2) Stand up for the prayer
3) Pay the poor-due (Zakat)
4) Give the messneger 1/5 of any booty they may posses
-> Command # 1: Belief (the pro-phet explained that it means believe in Allah and believe that Mohammed is His messenger) is not really complete because we are commanded by Allah not to only believe that He is God and Mohammed is His messenger, rather we are commanded by Allah to believe in the followings:
A) Believe that Allah is the only God
B) Believe in all the prophets and messengers including Mohammed
C) Believe in all scriptures sent including the Quran
D) Believe in the Angels
E) Believe in the Judgment Day
O you who have believed! Believe in Allah and His messenger and the Book which He has sent down on His messenger and the Book which He sent down before; and whoever disbelieves in Allah and His angels and His messengers and His books and the last day then he indeed strayed into a distant misguidance. [Al Quran ; 4:136]
-> See the all the things that are commanded by Allah upon the believers to believe in:
A) Believe that Allah is the only God: Believe in Allah
B) Believe in all the prophets and messengers including Mohammed: and His messenger, and and whoever disbelieves in Allah and His angels and His messengers, then he indeed strayed into a distant misguidance.
C) Believe in all scriptures sent including the Quran: and the Book which He has sent down on His messenger and the Book which He sent down before
D) Believe in the Angels: and whoever disbelieves in Allah and His angels, then he indeed strayed into a distant misguidance.
E) Believe in the Judgment Day: and whoever disbelieves in Allah and His angels and His messengers and His books and the last day, then he indeed strayed into a distant misguidance.
-> Command # 1: Belief, I wonder why the prophet advice such BELIEVERS to explicitly believe in Allah and that he was His messenger, aren�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??t they already believe so?, but I may accept that he was trying to stress the importanmce of those two that they should hold strongly to it, but how about the other things that we are required to believe in according to the Quran as we have seen above, may we just ignore them and concentrate only on the belief in Allah as the one God and believe that Mohammed is his messenger?, see how the alleged hearsay above started to hold no water, well it actually suppose to be telling us the times of the prayers as Bukhari named the main chapters which is the parent of this second sub chapter, sounds like he was way of the scale, he is talking about something totally different and yet questionable.
-> Command # 2: Stand up for the prayer, what is new here if those already asking him are believers who should know that Allah already commanded to stand up for the prayers numerous times in the Quran?, fine I will take as highlighting the imorporatnce of the prayer, but that was already highlighted in the Quran numerous times, it is like they will never read the Quran, the thing that the prophet suppose to be delivering to them, possibly they were Ummis and could not read, I say it may be the case and that should have a bit of merit indeed.
-> Command # 3: Pay the poor-due (Zakat), same argument for command # 2 applies, why not just tell them to memorise verses from the Quran which suppose to do the same exact job which are commanding them to do things and forbid them from doing other things?, this hadith slightly contradict the many other hadith where we read that the prophet told them that he is leaving Al Quran with them and if they hold fast to it they should never go astray
-> Command # 4: Give the prophet 1/5 of any booty they may posses, again, that is a command by Allah in the Quran, however in the Quran it was stated that the 1/5 is for Allah and His messenger, not for the messenger alone, this is very important because in such way the Quran does not give room for the enemy of Islam to attack the integrity or our great prophet because when it is said that it is for Allah and His messenger, then it should mean that it is for Allah alone because the messenger was only delivering what Allah commanded him to do, but when you say it without mentioning Allah at all as Bukhari did in hadith 492, then this must give plenty of room for the enemy of Islam to attack the integrity of the honourable prophet, makes sense to you?, it does make great sense to me
All the 4 alleged commands above and more are commanded by Allah, this means that whatever the prophet commanded must be what Allah commanded, the prophet would have never invented new laws on his own, for example knowing how to pray is not a new law, rather you must pray is the law and the command, and as you can see it was one of the 4 commands by the prophet in this hearsay hadith.
-> The whole sub chapter # 2 must be dismissed even without knowing what are the 4 things that were alleged to be forbidden by the prophet, simply because:
1) It never told us what it suppose to tell us which as Bukhari named the sub chapter: The saying of Allah (Exalted He is) when he said, Humbling to him, Fearing Him and Standing up for the prayer, this is actually a verse in the Quran however in the hadith there was no mention to such verse in the Quran not even words from, I wonder why Bukhari did so?, on the other hand, don�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??t forget that this is a sub chapter under the main chapter The times of the prayer, and as you can see, there is nothing in it regarding any time of any salat
Will continue soon inshaalllah
Salam
Posted:
Thu 24 Apr, 2008 11:21 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Salam all
Let�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??s move on to the sub chapter # 3 under the main chapter The times of the preyers as found in Bukhari hearsay books
Sub chapter # 3: Commitment to stand up for the prayer
-> The hadith is not a saying by the prophet rather a completely useless hadith, it is alleged that someone named Ibn Jarir declared that he sort of agreed or will be committed to: Standing up for the prayer, paying the poor-due (Zakat) and advise every Muslim.
-> What is that dear brothers and sisters? Ii really don�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??t get it from mister Bukhari, the main chapter is titled The times of the prayer and in this sub chapter # 3 mister Bukhari included a hadith that is nothing but a statement by someone named Ibn Jarir describing what he intended to do , that deceleration or statement by him that he will be standing up for the prayer, pay the Zakat and advice every Muslim, is understood by any Muslim child, where is the times of the prayers? That is what we need to learn, mister Bukhari, not the useless information you are promoting above under the main title The times of the prayer, being committed to stand up for the payer can not be equal to the times of the prayers, right brothers and sisters?
-> The whole sub chapter # 3 must be dismissed, simply because:
A) It failed to tell us the times of the prayers
B) It was not a saying by the prophet
C) It was not even a saying by someone else describing an action by the prophet, it is only a saying by someone describing an action he intended to do, that person is named Ibn Jarir whom we don�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??t know.
-> Hadith # 494 is another useless hadith, a long story, someone named Huzaifah heard Umar Ibn Alkhattab asking if anyone who memorises the saying of the prophet regarding Fitnah (Harm), so Huzaifah replied that he knows, Umar questioned him if he is brave enough to say it without sort of lying about the prophet, so Huzaifah confirmed and stated that any Fitnah in the money or the children may be remedied by prayer, fasting, charity commanding what is good and forbidding what is evil, Umar replied that he knows that and what he meant is the Discord that spread as the waves of the sea keep going, Huzaifah replied that he needs to worry not about it because between him (Omar) and such Fitnah there is a door, so Umar asked, will that door be opened or broken, Huzaifah replied that it will be broken so Umar replied that the door should never be closed then, so they asked Umar if he knows the door, he replied with yes then the hadith ended with yet very vague information that is absolutely fruitless
-> What total crap is that?, the above chat chat, has absolutely nothing in relation to the Salat other than what alleged to be said by Huzaifah that the salat redeem the Fitnah in the money and the children, absolutely nothing that we have learnt regarding the times of the prayer, indeed the dismissal bin is where this hadith belongs for the following reasons:
A) It failed to tell us the times of the prayers
B) It was not a saying by the prophet
C) It was a saying by someone who was questioned by Omar if he is brave enough to remember what the prophet said regarding Fitnah and repeat it, Omar then rejected his answer and claimed that he was talking about some other fitnah, then they continued the chat chat using some metaphors of a door being opened or broken then Omar decided that the door will never be closed, Total rubbish I have to say
-> Hadith # 495 is a very strange hadith, it is allegeing that verse 11:114 was revealed because of the following incident:
-> Someone came to the prophet and informed him that he kissed a woman, so Allah revealed the following verse:
And stand up for prayer in the two ends of the day and a portion of the night; surely the good deeds remove the evil deeds, this is a reminder to the mindful. [The Quran ; 11:114]
وَأَقِمِ الصَّلاَةَ طَرَفَيِ النَّهَارِ وَزُلَفًا مِّنَ اللَّيْلِ إِنَّ الْحَسَنَاتِ يُذْهِبْنَ السَّيِّئَاتِ ذَلِكَ ذِكْرَى لِلذَّاكِرِينَ (114)
-> What?, man I can�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??t believe that Allah revealed this verse because a man kissed a woman then went to the prophet asking him how he can fix his sin, but let�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??s just assume that this was the case, so if any man now kisses a woman (outside what is allowed in the Qiran), he can easily fix his sin by praying the two ends of the day and part of the night, then tomorrow should be another kiss and so on, we now know how we remove our sins when we kiss women outside the wedlock ( a sexual kiss), simply kiss then pray, holy crap man, there is nothing in this hearsay hadith that tells the sinful man not to do it again, rather go and pray and it should be ok after that, I�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??m not mocking in here, I�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??m honestly raising a very valid question. In no way 11:114 was revealed because of that alleged incident above, and in no way that the alleged reply of the prophet is the proper reply, in fact you expect something like this:
135: And those who if they have committed an indecency or have done injustice to themselves, they remember Allah and ask forgiveness for their faults; and who forgives the faults but Allah, and they do not persist in what they have done while they know.
136: For those, their reward is forgiveness from their Lord, and gardens where rivers flow beneath it, abiding in it, and excellent is the reward of those who strive. [The Quran ; 3:135-136]
وَالَّذِينَ إِذَا فَعَلُواْ فَاحِشَةً أَوْ ظَلَمُواْ أَنْفُسَهُمْ ذَكَرُواْ اللّهَ فَاسْتَغْفَرُواْ لِذُنُوبِهِمْ وَمَن يَغْفِرُ الذُّنُوبَ إِلاَّ اللّهُ وَلَمْ يُصِرُّواْ عَلَى مَا فَعَلُواْ وَهُمْ يَعْلَمُونَ (135)
أُوْلَئِكَ جَزَآؤُهُم مَّغْفِرَةٌ مِّن رَّبِّهِمْ وَجَنَّاتٌ تَجْرِي مِن تَحْتِهَا الأَنْهَارُ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا وَنِعْمَ أَجْرُ الْعَامِلِينَ (136)
-> See: And those who if they have committed an indecency or have done injustice to themselves, they remember Allah and ask forgiveness for their faults , as well they have to not to do it again: and they do not persist in what they have done while they know. , now apply those two verses on that sinful man who kissed a woman:
1) He has committed an indecency and have done injustice to himself
2) He wants to fix his sin
3:135 is telling us what this sinful man needs to do to fix his sin of kissing a woman ouside the wedlock:
1) Remember Allah
2) Ask forgiveness for his fault
3) And he does not persist in what he has done while he knows
-> 3:136 confirms that if the 3 actions above are done then the door of forgiveness will be wide open: For those, their reward is forgiveness from their Lord, and gardens where rivers flow beneath it, abiding in it
Can you see how the above two verses fit like a glove to answer that man mentioned in hadith # 495 by Bukhari, however Bukhari is telling us that another verse is the reply for that which to the contrary does not encourage the sinful not to persist on their sin while they know rather commit a sin then pray and that should be enough to be forgiven, indeed hadith # 495 is so flawed that it encourages committing the sins than showing the sinful that they have to stop their sins for good to be forgiven.
-> Or even the following verse will be far more suited as a reply to the sinful man than verse 11:114 mentioned in Bukhari hadith # 495:
And your Lord, with respect to those who do an evil in ignorance, then repent after that and make amends, indeed your Lord after that is Forgiving, Merciful. [The Quran ; 16:119]
ثُمَّ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ لِلَّذِينَ عَمِلُواْ السُّوءَ بِجَهَالَةٍ ثُمَّ تَابُواْ مِن بَعْدِ ذَلِكَ وَأَصْلَحُواْ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ مِن بَعْدِهَا لَغَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ (119)
-> See how 16:119 is another suited answer to the sinful man mentioned in Bukhari hadith # 495, And your Lord, with respect to those who do an evil in ignorance, then repent after that and make amends, indeed your Lord after that is Forgiving, Merciful., indeed the sinful man was ignorant to the sin and what to do to fix it, and as you can see that 16:119 tells us what the sinful man needs to do:
1) Repent
2) Make amends
-> Making amends means that he should never do the sin again because he was ignorant when he did it but now he is not an ignorant any more, that is why after that is done, then the forgiveness door will be wide open: indeed your Lord after that is Forgiving, Merciful., can you see the word �?????�????�???�??�?�¢??after that', i.e. after the sinful repent and makes amends, compare this with what we are told in Bukhari hadith # 495, it is clear that under such hadith the sinful man needs to pray, no mention of repenting, no mention of not persisting on the sin, no mention of making amends no mention of rememering Allah and no mention of Allah forgiveness, it certainly leaves the door open for those sinful believers to keep doing the sin and redeem it every night by praying.
Here is another verse that has to be the suited answer instead of what Bukhari told us in his hadith # 495:
Indeed, the repentance with Allah is only for those who do the evil in ignorance, then they turn (to Allah) soon, these are the ones to whom Allah relents, and Allah is all-Knowing, all-Wise. [The Quran ; 4:17]
إِنَّمَا التَّوْبَةُ عَلَى اللّهِ لِلَّذِينَ يَعْمَلُونَ السُّوَءَ بِجَهَالَةٍ ثُمَّ يَتُوبُونَ مِن قَرِيبٍ فَأُوْلَئِكَ يَتُوبُ اللّهُ عَلَيْهِمْ وَكَانَ اللّهُ عَلِيماً حَكِيماً (17)
-> Again, see how 4:17 is the suited answer to the sinful man mentioned in Bukhari hadith # 495: Indeed, the repentance with Allah is only for those who do the evil in ignorance, then they turn (to Allah) soon, these are the ones to whom Allah relents
Bukhari on the other hand wants us to believe that 11:114 was revealed because of such incident mentioned in his hearsay, I would say if he alleged that 3:135 or 16:119 or 4:17 was the one to be revealed because of such incident I would have given a bit of credit to him, however the man seems to have absolutely no credit, in the above 4 sub chapters under the main chapter titled The times of the prayer, we learnt absolutely nothing concerning the times of the prayer, Bukhari had to be one or the other:
1) Either he was so stupid not to see his fatal and stupid mistakes
2) Or he was so damn smart to know in advance that most Muslims will be so stupid and take most of his rubbish for granted
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