| Al-Quraishi wrote:
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To be honest Brother I think he's had enough of these forums
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| Al-Quraishi wrote:
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so the ones who wished to silence him may have succeeded in what they want
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| Al-Quraishi wrote:
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, well they've succeeded to silence him here, but it won't make much difference
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| jankren wrote:
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I admit that bro Ahmed had always been one of the people here with great views and knowledge. However, I also do think that he has some problem with his manners in expressing his magnificent opinions...
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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And I'm not happy to see Ahmed go, or any other members.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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But whatever he thinks, or anyone else thinks, he deserved that 1 month ban.
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Ahmed, I think you did deserve the ban.
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Who has given you the power to judge others?
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Why are you calling enquirer, or Magi, or anyone else a Kafir?
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I think Magi's complaint against you was valid.
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I don't care who's right or who's wrong,
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but no one has the right to degrade others just because they don't agree.
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a) It's not the right attitude, and I know that you know that.
b) What if you are wrong and they are right? only God knows best, so let's leave the judging to God alone.
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We can continue discussing and debating issues, and people can choose to follow the views they think are best.
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We can all be wrong. We have to realize that. Only then can we truly be searching for answers.
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Life, so you are perfectly sure that you are RIGHT?
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that you are the true believer and everyone who disagrees with you is wrong?
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Are you sure that you already know all the answers?
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btw, I know he left at will. But he did get a 1 month ban. That's what I was talking about.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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Ahmed, I think you did deserve the ban.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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Who has given you the power to judge others?
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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Why are you calling enquirer, or Magi, or anyone else a Kafir?
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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I think Magi's complaint against you was valid.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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I don't care who's right or who's wrong, but no one has the right to degrade others just because they don't agree.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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It's not the right attitude, and I know that you know that.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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What if you are wrong and they are right? only God knows best, so let's leave the judging to God alone.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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We can continue discussing and debating issues, and people can choose to follow the views they think are best.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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We can all be wrong. We have to realize that. Only then can we truly be searching for answers.
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bro if that what you see, however this makes great sense to me because I expected you to be one of those who want to silence me on FM, however on FI there will be no one to be silenced for life, this a a clear CUT tyrancy, see, even the God forgives, only shirk and kufr are punished for life, therefore the webmaster who created these stupid rules looks like he is more stronger than God if you ask me, He punish humans for life for expressing their views, while the God only do that if you commit shirk or kufr
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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I don't know why you would think I wanted to silence you.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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I don't agree with you on a lot of issues. But I didn't like it at all when you left.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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I'm a firm believer in diversity.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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I think if we have a large variety of views, it creates conflict (in a good way) and makes it easier for the best understanding to be seen.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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Ahmed, I think I did explain why I thought you deserved the ban.
You repeatedly called Magi a kafir, loser, mr.confused, arrogant, hell bound...and so on.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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Is that the kind of language the Quran promotes? just ask yourself.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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You say anyone can present their views as long as they don't mock Allah and his prophets and his books. But what defines "mocking?"
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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I know that Idolfree1 would be banned in an instant.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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So will any athiest like Enquirer or Danish.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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This forum will then be full of people who agree with you and no one else.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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How do you KNOW that Magi and enquirer are satan followers?
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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as far as I know, at least Magi has done nothing wrong.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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He's put up some critical arguments against the Quran, but so have I (and I'll continue to do so) and I see nothing wrong with criticizing this book.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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And I also disagree that your attitude is the right attitude for debating. If we start calling others names, the real issue is lost and the debate becomes a string of personal attacks.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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If you think people wanted to silence you, I have to say you are wrong. No one there wanted to silence you. None of the mods and neither of the admins.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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Danish and enquirer are hated by several members yet they are still here.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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Danish even served a week or month ban. He is still there. And I wish you were there too.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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Not all people are wrong. But all CAN be wrong. There is always a possibility that we are wrong, no matter how sure we are. Sunnis believe that they are right about what they think the Quran says. But does that make them right?
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| Al_Khidr wrote:
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As Salaamu Alaykum Ahmed
I just recently browsed through this thread and I just want to say that I fully supported you on this position. I was unaware that you were banned just because you called someone a kafir at FM. Calling someone a kafir is no violation of Al Qur'aan. Its a shame that there are people who police their forum and strip people from freely expressing themselves. I also was banned on FM when I was debating Danish, who attempted to mock, attack Allah.
http://www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6762.60
I personally could care less about being banned because I am a free man, I am a free Muslim and I will speak the TRUTH regardless of what one thinks.
Salaam
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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ok, you have explained your position. I'll keep that in mind.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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I'd like it if you join FM again, but it's your choice, of course.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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I know that you stick to the quran, and don't like to use other sources.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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But using the Matrix to explain your position is like using the video you made about hell.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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There isn't a wrong way to explain your ideas as long as you back them up with proof.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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The Matrix actually contains references to the Quran and I definitely like some of the ideas contained in that movie.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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And what you debate for, that is, your position, is based on what you think the Quran says (as you said), not on what the Quran actually says.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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Saying that we know exactly what the Quran says is blasphemy, I think.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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But we must follow the best understanding there is.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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And I don't think taking literally everything we can is the right way to go. I think that the stories used in the Quran are metaphors.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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Whether they actually happened or not is irrelevant. What is important is that these stories have to serve a purpose in our lives, teach us a lesson we can use, and only metaphors and symbols can do that.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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But, again, what is the right way to understand the Quran is up for debate. Which I'll gladly do with you.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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And another thing about FM, as far as I know, no one there has been banned because of what they believe. Action is only taken when users complain about another user.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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In your case, it was Magi who filed a complaint against you.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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In Danish's case, there were probably a lot more complaints.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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I think Noble might've actually gotten a week ban too if I had squealed on him.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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But I know that no one actually means to offend me, or harm me. So people are welcome to call me names if they want (doesn't mean I prefer or even like that, though).
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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It's just that Layth tries to be fair.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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There are hundreds of active posters, and it's a tough job,
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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you have to admit. And you'll find that out too once this place has a 1000+ users.
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| AhmedBahgat wrote:
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I just read that thread bro, Kyle, is a double faced, biased and confused Kafir, therefore you don't need to worry about him, if you search his comments you will see that he used the same words "Stupid" and "Ignorant" many times before, talking about homsexuals for examples, he is one hell of a power abuser and I'm planning to study all his comments since he joined FM to expose his Kufr bu when I have time to watse with that confused guy, he is nothing but a wolf in a sheep cloth
Take care man
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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And I don't think taking literally everything we can is the right way to go. I think that the stories used in the Quran are metaphors.
Whether they actually happened or not is irrelevant. What is important is that these stories have to serve a purpose in our lives, teach us a lesson we can use, and only metaphors and symbols can do that.
But, again, what is the right way to understand the Quran is up for debate. Which I'll gladly do with you.
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| phoenix1 wrote:
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Ahmed, how is letting people voice their opinions and ask questions "clear cut shirk?"
I thought you were going to allow people of any belief system to post on this forum, too?
Would you be committing shirk?
the Quran is lying because you can't prove that Adam's story actually happened, yet I can prove that all those stories never happened.
If you don't ban me after what just said, by your own logic, you are committing shirk.
Also,
What you say is your interpretation of the Quran. Nothing more, nothing less. You are entitled to your beliefs, so are Ayman and Kyle and Danish.
Only God knows who is actually right and who is wrong.
Ayman has backed his understandings with the Quran, so has Kyle.
And what you learned in school wasn't quranic arabic, it was modern arabic (but please forgive me if I'm wrong here since I don't know much about arabic or your school).
Both sides are presenting two different ways to look at the Quran. And just like you, I pick one side over the other based on what I found verifiably true.
|
Any fact is better established
by two or three good testimonies
than by a thousand arguments.
Nathaniel Emmons
- Mon 30 Oct, 2006 1:37 pm
Post subject:
| phoenix1 wrote:
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Peace Ahmed,
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Salam Walid
| phoenix1 wrote:
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Let's take the story of the Vietnam war. This is what happened:
The US invades Vietnam to try to defeat communism, but the guerillas ended up winning in a decade long conflict.
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Sure and the story is real, right?
| phoenix1 wrote:
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Now, there is a lesson we can learn from that. What happened back then can serve a purpose to us today.
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sure, but the story back then was real, right?
| phoenix1 wrote:
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The lesson the US leaders should've learned from Vietnam was the you cannot defeat guerilla fighters. It's impossible. If they did learn the lesson, they wouldn't have invaded Iraq.
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cool, but that does not mean the story back then was not real
| phoenix1 wrote:
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We can take the Vietnam story symbolically:
Vietnam=Iraq, Communists=insurgents...etc.
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And all entities you list above are for real, right?
| phoenix1 wrote:
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(this is all symbolism means).
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symbol for what exactly?, a lesson?, fine
but that does not mean that Vietnam war was not real
| phoenix1 wrote:
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So forget about what is a symbol or metaphor and what is literal, because that debate comes in the way of truth.
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The truth is simply these stories happened in the past for real and Allah is telling us about it, Allah does not tell unreal stories like your granny or mine
| phoenix1 wrote:
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The truth is that the stories in the Quran are there for a reason. They're supposed to teach us a lesson. They are examples for us.
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hmmm, fine but what that has to do with the stories being real or not?
So I take the stories as real would that mean I donlt get the lesson out of it?
| phoenix1 wrote:
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We need to put ourselves in place of Adam and Musa and Isa,
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impossible bro,
| phoenix1 wrote:
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or atleast in their stories, so we can be guided by their examples.
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do you mean living their stories as a dream?, I just don't get it bro, how come I live a dream like Prophet Noah and the flood, or Moses or Jesus or Mohammad etc etc
I agree we take them as examples but what that has to do with the real events they went through
| phoenix1 wrote:
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Stephen Colbert said "I believe in America, I believe it exists."
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who is Stephen Colbert?
| phoenix1 wrote:
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Well, we aren't supposed to believe that those stories exist, but believe in what they are trying to convey. Their message.
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hahahahaha, why you are mixing apple with mangos bro?
the stories being real or not is totally something else to the lesson learnt out of it
we can learn lessons out of real and unreal stories, however the stories mentioned in the Quran are all real because Allah is not like our grannies
| phoenix1 wrote:
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If the Quran just wanted to tell us stories of great people, it would've told several others, but these stories were picked because they are useful to us right here, right now.
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really?, how the flood is useful to us right now?
And how splitting the sea is useful to us right now?
And how the argument to care for Mary is useful to us right now?
| phoenix1 wrote:
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And here's 49:11 for you. You didn't follow what this verse says. That is why you deserved the month ban, IMO. It is irrelevant to me whether Layth or the mods are unfair and confused or not.
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Lol mate, you just changed the subject all of a sudden from the metaphoric Quarn to my ban, hmmm let me see:
| phoenix1 wrote:
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`O you who believe, let not a people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names. Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors.` (49:11)
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Excuse me bro, you are bringing a verse that talks about malice actions to innocent people or at least malice acts against those who did nothing wrong
Now the gang of Danish, Magi and Enq are infact mocking 1.5 billion Muslims directly, then we have Ayman and FM webmaster mocking 1.5 billion Muslims indirectly, they called them idol worshippers, don't you agree that this is mocking?, if it is not mocking then for me to call another one Kafir, should not be mocking
At the end of the day the Quran is giving me the right to mock those who mock my religion or mock me,
Salam
- Mon 30 Oct, 2006 1:57 pm
Post subject:
| phoenix1 wrote:
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Ahmed, how is letting people voice their opinions and ask questions "clear cut shirk?"
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Walid, did I say that?, it seems you totally misunderstood what I'm talking about, the webmaster on FM does not allow the Muslims to mock those who mock the religion of Islam, now we have the gang of three along with Ayman and the webmaster of FM calling 1.5 billion Muslims pagans and idol worshippers in Mecca, would that be questions or mocking?, now let me ask you the same question differently, is calling 1.5 billion Muslims pagans, confused and idol worshipper is not mocking, if it is not then me calling others kafirs can't be mocking
| phoenix1 wrote:
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I thought you were going to allow people of any belief system to post on this forum, too?
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of course I will
| phoenix1 wrote:
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Would you be committing shirk?
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of course not, it seems you are basing your argument on the wrong understanding, if you allow others to call others pagans then you should allow those who were called pagans to call the first perpetrators kafiroon, see, I will allow all to view their voices freely, as long as it is to the subject that is discussed
| phoenix1 wrote:
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the Quran is lying because you can't prove that Adam's story actually happened, yet I can prove that all those stories never happened.
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see that is the difference between me and you, I'm a firm believer and a submitter to Allah words, and you are not, now I chllenge you to prove to me beyond doubt that the story of Adam never happened along with other stories, but let's concentrate on Adam story first, I will be waiting for your conclusive evidences Walid
| phoenix1 wrote:
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If you don't ban me after what just said, by your own logic, you are committing shirk.
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No, No you are wrong, because I;m refuting you, and again your comment that the Quran lied has no merit value until you prove it beyond doubt, and if you failed to prove it then you will be the suspected liar
| phoenix1 wrote:
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Also,
What you say is your interpretation of the Quran. Nothing more, nothing less. You are entitled to your beliefs, so are Ayman and Kyle and Danish.
|
Ayman, Kyle and Danish, produce non sensible arguments that are very easy refuted by the Arabic Quran, it is their submission to Satan that is preventing them from seeing the truth, those 3 are ones of the biggest Quran manipulators I have seen in my life, if they come here they will be refuted for good but do they dare to do it?, hahahahaha, I know that those three and many more on FM can't handle my intense debating pressure, that is why they end up crying trying to ban me, if you check Danish comments for example, you will see hundreds of times that he used the word stupid, so he is allowed to do it while double faced Kyle jump on the toes of the sincere Muslims when they say it back to them, this is ridiculous man, it is also a joke and I will expose it inshaalllah, I have a lot to say man and now, I can't be stopped unless Allah wills
| phoenix1 wrote:
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Only God knows who is actually right and who is wrong.
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of course and also He gave us the complete guidelines in the Quran to confront those who manipulate the religion
| phoenix1 wrote:
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Ayman has backed his understandings with the Quran, so has Kyle.
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hahahaha, most evidences provided by Ayman are the commonly corrupted archaeological evidences while Kyle only use the book of the matrix, hence is the most confused moderator on FM
| phoenix1 wrote:
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And what you learned in school wasn't quranic arabic, it was modern arabic (but please forgive me if I'm wrong here since I don't know much about arabic or your school).
|
didn't I respond to this before bro?
well there are two type of Arabic languages, Lugha Arabia Fusha, and Lugha Arabia Darga, the first is the Arabic of the Quran and all Arabic nations can dialogue using this type, the second is the localized one for each country and not all Arabic nation can communicate using their local Arabic version
now can you guess what I learnt at school?
I learnt the Fusha, the language of the Quran and the Egyptian Arabic (the localised one)
thanks
| phoenix1 wrote:
|
|
Both sides are presenting two different ways to look at the Quran. And just like you, I pick one side over the other based on what I found verifiably true.
|
there is only one side to the Arabic Quran, it is called Lugha Arabia Fusha, please have a look at Wekipedia if you don't believe me
Salam
- Sun 05 Nov, 2006 2:15 am
Post subject:
"really?, how the flood is useful to us right now?
And how splitting the sea is useful to us right now?
And how the argument to care for Mary is useful to us right now? "
Exactly. That's my point.
I'm not arguing about whether they actually happened or not. Let's ignore that issue for now, because it's not important.
What I am saying is that these stories have been put in there for a reason. The Quran isn't just telling us random stories to fill up pages, they're there because they are useful to us here and now.
We have to look at symbolism in those stories to get something out of them.
- Sun 05 Nov, 2006 3:56 am
Post subject:
As Salaamu Alaykum phoenix1
I have read your nonsense here in this thread and first of all you are one of the biggest Kafiroon on the Free-Minds forum. A careful analysis of your words, thoughts, philosophies, concepts, positions (on Free-Minds Forum) that you take clearly and strongly indicates that you do not believe in Islaam nor Al Qur'aan as a Believer (Mumin). Let me use some quick statements that you have placed in this thread. For example you have said:
'???????????the Quran is lying because you can't prove that Adam's story actually happened'????
So for example when Allah revealed this verse, you will actually say that it never have happened:
Qur'aan 2:30-34
30. Your Lord said to the Angelic Beings, '???????????I am placing a khalifah on the planet earth.'???? They said, '???????????Will you place therein one who will commit evil therein, and shed blood, while we praise You, glorify You, and uphold Your absolute authority?'???? He said, '???????????I know what you do not know.'????
31. He taught Adam the names of all things, then presented them to the Angelic Beings, saying, '???????????Give me the names of these, if you are truthful.'????
32. They said, '???????????Be You glorified, we have no knowledge, except what you have taught us. You are The Omniscient, Most Wise.'????
33. He said, '???????????O Adam, tell them their names.'???? When he told them their names, He said, '???????????Did I not tell you that I know the secrets of the galactic heavens and the planet earth? I know what you reveal, and what you conceal.'????
34. And when We said to the Angelic Beings, '???????????Fall prostrate before Adam.'???? They fell prostrate, except Iblis; he refused, was too proud, and one of the disbelievers.
Phoenix1 would you actually say this did not happen? Remember Allah said that His revelation (Al Qur'aan) is the truth. Remember you said, '???????????the Quran is lying because you can't prove that Adam's story actually happened'???? For one look how you use the word '???????????lying'???? in reference to the Qur'aan which came from Allah who you call '???????????God'????. Phoenix1 (the true kafir), you are missing a critical point here. If the Holy Qur'aan is the Infallible word as Allah have stated below:
Qur'aan 2:2
This scripture is infallible; It's a guidance to the select, who tremble at the mention of Allah.
Then therefore everything in the Holy Qur'aan is true so what Allah have revealed pertaining to Adam are actually true. Now you have made another ridiculous statement below:
'???????????yet I can prove that all those stories never happened.'????
Well I challenge YOU Kafir (phoenix1), prove that store never happened that I quoted from the Holy Qur'aan. Being a blind follower of the moderators, administrator of Free-Minds and accepting their ignorance and foolishness of Islaam that they teach will not do it for you.
You have said this:
'???????????Also, What you say is your interpretation of the Quran. Nothing more, nothing less. You are entitled to your beliefs, so are Ayman and Kyle and Danish. Only God knows who is actually right and who is wrong. Ayman has backed his understandings with the Quran, so has Kyle.'????
There is no compromise with Allah when it comes to truth and falsehood, so therefore phoenix1 the various conflicting interpretation of Al Qur'aan cannot be accepted, there is ONE TRUTH and that is the only TRUTH that has to be accepted, that is if you are a believer or a real Muslim. Finally phoenix1 we can prove whether or not some one's interpretation of Al Qur'aan is true or not, this is not an impossible task. Like Ahmed said if they come in this forum and bring that foolishness here, they will be defeated and refuted and I will add it will be very clear of whose evidence will be backed up by the Qur'aan. Every body will not accepted the truth especially when we deal with kafiroon like yourself who blindly follows people despite the facts and evidence that exist.
Salaam
| phoenix1 wrote:
|
Ahmed, how is letting people voice their opinions and ask questions "clear cut shirk?"
I thought you were going to allow people of any belief system to post on this forum, too?
Would you be committing shirk?
the Quran is lying because you can't prove that Adam's story actually happened, yet I can prove that all those stories never happened.
If you don't ban me after what just said, by your own logic, you are committing shirk.
Also,
What you say is your interpretation of the Quran. Nothing more, nothing less. You are entitled to your beliefs, so are Ayman and Kyle and Danish.
Only God knows who is actually right and who is wrong.
Ayman has backed his understandings with the Quran, so has Kyle.
And what you learned in school wasn't quranic arabic, it was modern arabic (but please forgive me if I'm wrong here since I don't know much about arabic or your school).
Both sides are presenting two different ways to look at the Quran. And just like you, I pick one side over the other based on what I found verifiably true.
|
- Sun 05 Nov, 2006 2:15 pm
Post subject:
| phoenix1 wrote:
|
"really?, how the flood is useful to us right now?
And how splitting the sea is useful to us right now?
And how the argument to care for Mary is useful to us right now? "
Exactly. That's my point.
I'm not arguing about whether they actually happened or not. Let's ignore that issue for now, because it's not important.
|
brother phonix, and I'm not arguing that there is a lesson in it, yeh there is, but what I'm saying is this:
Allah never told us that the stories didn't happen for real, in fact all what He said that they happened for real
now let me ask you, why you don't want to believe Allah whe He told us that the stories are real?
let's take the example of the dispute that happened when a few men wanted to take care of the baby girl Mary, Allah told Mohammad in the story, "You were not with them when they threw their pens", now this clearly means that the story is for real
yeh i concede there is a lesson in all these stories, now, do you concede that the stories told in the Quran happened for real?
| phoenix1 wrote:
|
|
What I am saying is that these stories have been put in there for a reason.
|
of course they have been put for a reaosn, and I accept that there is a lesson in it, now do you accept that stories happened for real?
| phoenix1 wrote:
|
|
The Quran isn't just telling us random stories to fill up pages, they're there because they are useful to us here and now.
|
great and I have no problem with that, it seems that you are the one who is having problem in believing if these stories hapened for real
we have two different issues in here:
1) the stories are for real or not
2) there is a lesson in it or not
please don't mix these two seperate issues
| phoenix1 wrote:
|
|
We have to look at symbolism in those stories to get something out of them.
|
well fine, and I have no problem with that, I won't call it symbolism though, for example the story of prophet LUT
did it happen for real or not?, the main lesson in it is obvious, that homosexuality is forbidden, and this is obvous for a child, now to te other issue, is the story real or not?
you say it does not matter?
I say it does because Allah never said that these stories are symbols, if they are symbols, why Allah did not tell us that?, if they are symbol, why Allah tell Mohammad that he was not with them when they threw their pens?
see it is you who is saying unfounded opinions about these stories
if the lessons in these stories are obvious to you as they are obious to me then you don't need to dispute that these stories are for real or not however all what you do is disputing that they are not real and this means that Allah lied to us (Allah forbids)
Salam
- Mon 06 Nov, 2006 5:03 am
Post subject:
Ahmed, doesn't the quran say several times that God's message is explained in parables?
I know there are two issues, and that's what I was explaining to you.
I am not mixing the two, you are.
Whether the stories have lessons or not has absolutely nothing to do with whether they happened or not.
Real stories can be allegories, as I showed with my Vietnam and Iraq example.
We agree that the stories have lessons, which means they are allegories. To understand that lesson, we are substituting ourselves in place of the prophets.
We don't agree on whether these stories actually happened or not.
Now, I would have no problem believing these stories actually happened if there was proof that they happened. There isn't.
I can never verify that claim. I have never seen a sea split in two, or a stick turn into a snake, or any other supernatural incident. What reason is there for me to believe in these stories with invisible beings and magic and what not?
- Mon 06 Nov, 2006 5:04 am
Post subject: Please PM next time
. Thanks
- Thu 09 Nov, 2006 7:48 am
Post subject:
| phoenix1 wrote:
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Ahmed, doesn't the quran say several times that God's message is explained in parables?
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Salam Walid
I donlt think so bro, I never read as such, can you please show one exaple out of those several times?, cheers
| phoenix1 wrote:
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I know there are two issues, and that's what I was explaining to you.
I am not mixing the two, you are.
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Really?
So it was me who opened the subject questioning the reality of these stories, right?
| phoenix1 wrote:
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Whether the stories have lessons or not has absolutely nothing to do with whether they happened or not.
Real stories can be allegories, as I showed with my Vietnam and Iraq example.
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Excuse me man, you showed nothing indeed, or should I say that what you showed refuted your self, i.e. when you mentioned Vietnam, you have mentioned something that happened for real, and obviously the Americans cared less about any lessons learnt from your allegory of Vietnam
| phoenix1 wrote:
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We agree that the stories have lessons, which means they are allegories.
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excuse me, any story can have lessons, now having a lesson or not has nothing to do of being allergy especially when our God is the one who telling us these stories
| phoenix1 wrote:
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To understand that lesson, we are substituting ourselves in place of the prophets.
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hahaha, that was total non sense man, how can you substitute yourself in place of Noah?
| phoenix1 wrote:
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We don't agree on whether these stories actually happened or not.
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of course, you say they didn????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t happen, I say they did because Allah is the story teller not a confused human
| phoenix1 wrote:
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Now, I would have no problem believing these stories actually happened if there was proof that they happened. There isn't.
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There is of course, it is your God telling you as such that they happened
| phoenix1 wrote:
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I can never verify that claim.
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of course because you suffer from the flowing:
1) you don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t know what Allah is
2) you never believe you God in what He tells you
| phoenix1 wrote:
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I have never seen a sea split in two, or a stick turn into a snake, or any other supernatural incident. What reason is there for me to believe in these stories with invisible beings and magic and what not?
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sounds like confused Kyle, any way the reason for you to believe is simply Allah told you as such and He asked you to believe in the UNSEEN and because you didn????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t see these stories but you to were told to you by Allah then you should follow 2:3 that tells you the believers are those who believe in the Unseen
Salam
- Thu 09 Nov, 2006 9:08 am
Post subject: Re:
Bother Ahmed & Walid,
Please discuss current topic in a new thread.
- Fri 10 Nov, 2006 8:27 am
Post subject:
Hello All
Yeh let's get this thread on track again:
| drshabeer wrote:
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Peace Brothers and sisters..
Well In my opinion People like me who are not very good at understanding the grammer etc of Arabic would Always like to get different Perspectives and Views on the Same Verses.
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Salam bro
See man, there is only one way that we can defend ourselves on the JD, simply by telling Allah that this is what He told us literally in the Quran. i.e. those who manipulate the Quran illiterally will have no defence on the JD. it is possible that it will be said to them that they only followed their low desires:
43- Have you seen him who takes his desires for his god? Will you then be a protector over him?
44- Or do you think that most of them do hear or understand? They are nothing but as cattle; nay, they are straying farther off from the path.
[The Quran ; 25:43-44]
أَرَأَيْتَ مَنِ اتَّخَذَ إِلَهَهُ هَوَاهُ أَفَأَنتَ تَكُونُ عَلَيْهِ وَكِيلًا (43)
أَمْ تَحْسَبُ أَنَّ أَكْثَرَهُمْ يَسْمَعُونَ أَوْ يَعْقِلُونَ إِنْ هُمْ إِلَّا كَالْأَنْعَامِ بَلْ هُمْ أَضَلُّ سَبِيلًا (44)
Then seest thou such a one as takes as his god his own vain desire? Allah has, knowing (him as such), left him astray, and sealed his hearing and his heart (and understanding), and put a cover on his sight. Who, then, will guide him after Allah (has withdrawn Guidance)? Will ye not then receive admonition?
[The Quran ; 45:23]
أَفَرَأَيْتَ مَنِ اتَّخَذَ إِلَهَهُ هَوَاهُ وَأَضَلَّهُ اللَّهُ عَلَى عِلْمٍ وَخَتَمَ عَلَى سَمْعِهِ وَقَلْبِهِ وَجَعَلَ عَلَى بَصَرِهِ غِشَاوَةً فَمَن يَهْدِيهِ مِن بَعْدِ اللَّهِ أَفَلَا تَذَكَّرُونَ (23)
| drshabeer wrote:
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So that I can compare and study the different Views by my own Analysis etc..
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Well, I guess this is what everyone should do, which is analyse the proposed concepts and comparing it with the existing knowledge that we already have, I have to be honest too that I analysed most of the claims stated by the aloners,, at the start I felt that they have merit but as I continued my analysis o quickly realized that they are a bunch of Muslims who submitted to satan and surely they have gone astray
The aloners confusion with the Quran is evident when you present to them a very string language argument, like when I did with the pig meat or the Sacred House or Fasting the month of Ramadan even when you present to them a logical Quran argument like when I did with Jahannam, or Firon, they still insist on their non sense, this is the clear evidence of their submission to Satan, remember this verse:
They swear by Allah that they said nothing (evil), but indeed they uttered blasphemy, and they did it after accepting Islam; and they meditated a plot which they were unable to carry out: this revenge of theirs was (their) only return for the bounty with which Allah and His Messenger had enriched them! If they repent, it will be best for them; but if they turn back (to their evil ways), Allah will punish them with a grievous penalty in this life and in the Hereafter: They shall have none on earth to protect or help them.
[The Quran ; 9:74]
يَحْلِفُونَ بِاللّهِ مَا قَالُواْ وَلَقَدْ قَالُواْ كَلِمَةَ الْكُفْرِ وَكَفَرُواْ بَعْدَ إِسْلاَمِهِمْ وَهَمُّواْ بِمَا لَمْ يَنَالُواْ وَمَا نَقَمُواْ إِلاَّ أَنْ أَغْنَاهُمُ اللّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ فَإِن يَتُوبُواْ يَكُ خَيْرًا لَّهُمْ وَإِن يَتَوَلَّوْا يُعَذِّبْهُمُ اللّهُ عَذَابًا أَلِيمًا فِي الدُّنْيَا وَالآخِرَةِ وَمَا لَهُمْ فِي الأَرْضِ مِن وَلِيٍّ وَلاَ نَصِيرٍ (74)
| drshabeer wrote:
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If the Views are Unilateral without any opposing It would become difficult to verify the Views.. Regards
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and also bro, when the account is held it will be impossible to have a defence using the unliteral understandings because simply there might be more than one unliteral understanding (see, each one can be according to the individual low desires) however with the literal Quran, we only have one understanding hence those following the literal Quran will have a merited defence
Salam
- Fri 10 Nov, 2006 2:16 pm
Post subject:
Salam Ahmed,
Basically mate, i dont think you should have to reason your actions. Anyway, all i could see is that they banned you because you were getting on their nerves. Simple as that! If someone doesnt like it tuff luck!!
And really every single point you disputed about their comments - they never wanted to accept (even before you said it) - if they want to say somehting, and expect the reader to believe it then they should of continued to debate the matter with you to show us who is right at the end, but it looks like they were worried their whole concept of islam would be jeopardised. One thing i like about you - is the fact that your willing to take on any argument - and continue it to the end. Really its the loss of any reader out there who didnt find out the conclusion.
Dre
- Sat 11 Nov, 2006 9:07 am
Post subject:
Salam bro
| Dre wrote:
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Basically mate, i dont think you should have to reason your actions.
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With these weirdos you need to explain everything otherwise they manipulate it and use it against you to defame you
| Dre wrote:
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Anyway, all i could see is that they banned you because you were getting on their nerves. Simple as that! If someone doesnt like it tuff luck!!
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Of course I was gettin on their nerves, as they got on my nerves when they kept saying non sense about Allah and his Quran, the difference between me and them though that I didn't cri as they did all the time during my year on FM
| Dre wrote:
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And really every single point you disputed about their comments - they never wanted to accept (even before you said it)
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Of course, and if you pay FM a visit and read my over 3000 comments "if you have time" you will see how they have been refuted and what they do after, they just run and try to defame me
| Dre wrote:
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- if they want to say somehting, and expect the reader to believe it then they should of continued to debate the matter with you to show us who is right at the end,
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It is not really a matter of who is right and who is wrong, there will be no room for mistakes on the JD, anyone who is mistaken will pay severly, it is all about reaching a common understanding to our great religion and its Quran, they don't want that indeed, what they want is to create a deluded concept that can only be valid in Barbie worlds then promot it as if they are the right ones and the rest are wrong, they did exactly as the sunni and other islamic sects did
| Dre wrote:
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but it looks like they were worried their whole concept of islam would be jeopardised.
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Of course, that is why I concluded that they don't want to reach a common understanding regarding the Quran, rather to insist on their manipulations to only serve their low desires
| Dre wrote:
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One thing i like about you - is the fact that your willing to take on any argument - and continue it to the end.
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Bro, this is what a religious debater should be, I'M NOT A RELIGIOUS PREACHER rather a very tough religious debater, and when I say tough I mean that I look at every single letter said by my opponent and try hard to find logical mistakes in it sort of like a lawyer or a prosecuter and I use their tough style of presenting my argument, I'm no faint hearted bro and religious debates are not for the faint hearted, if you read my reply to the first part of the manipulated story named "where was mohammed" by FM webmaster you will know what I mean
| Dre wrote:
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Really its the loss of any reader out there who didnt find out the conclusion.
Dre
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Not really because that is why FI was launched
I won't be stopped bro
Take care
- Sun 18 Mar, 2007 3:31 am
Post subject: Should brother Ahmed leave Free Minds forum - Bring it on
There is nothing wrong in brother Ahmed using strong language.
So does the Koran.
So does the Book of Isaiah.
So did Jesus.
I wish I could do the same. ( May be, I even secretly admire and envy him for this gift.)
He has been gifted such speech by Allah
because his faith is STRONG, and not luke warm like the rest of us.
With faith comes knowledge.
With knowledge comes wisdom.
With wisdom, love, and understanding.
Open your eyes, so that light may enter.
Open your hearts, that faith may enter.
And leave brother Ahmed alone just because he is in conflict with our pride and our half baked knowledge on the Koran.
He has devoted much time to study it. So let us not grudge him credit for it.
As God orders us in the Book of Job:
"Be silent. And Listen."
Yes, dear friends. Listening is also an art which many of us have not cared to acquire.
As the saying goes in India:
He (god) has given us two ears and one tongue so that
we may listen twice as much as we speak."
Go, do likewise.
Love,
- Sun 18 Mar, 2007 7:08 pm
Post subject:
| Quote:
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drshabeer wrote:
Well In my opinion People like me who are not very good at understanding the grammer etc of Arabic would Always like to get different Perspectives and Views on the Same Verses.
If the Views are Unilateral without any opposing It would become difficult to verify the Views.. Regards
|
# u are absolutely right, brother! however, it's very important to know what one is dealing with; many peepz i see simply fall to propoganda!
for example, non-muslims over the years have tried to disort the quran by claiming that the arabs borrowed words from other languages and distorted the meanings to suit their own agenda! this is simply absurd for v have no reason to believe that if a word is common to arabic and, say, hebrew, then it is the arabic language which has borrowed it from hebrew! further, there is no reason to suppose that a borrowed word should either conform to the meaning in the source language, or be seen as a distortion! there are many peepz who look at the different entries for words in a dictionary and then get pedantic about it; and there are many others who actually fall for these full-baked "regurgitators"!
## to give but 1 example, look at the word "berserk"! if v read in a piece of english literature about somebody who went berserk, v understand the person got all maniacal and frenzied!
...v do not trace its source back to scandinavian dialect or culture, and understand that the person (who went berserk) became a norse warrior! nor do v understand that person to have wrapped himself in bearskin!
...yet u find plenty score non-muslims and wannabes trying to apply such a technique to the text of quran; and u do find some naive peepz in search of a fresh perspective fall pray to their lies!
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