AhmedBahgat wrote:
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there will be no escape from the god being cruel or merciful... most humans will not believe in Islam.
God knows what is going to happen exactly, the bottom line is this, if Allah exits then a large number of people must reside in Hell, that is what He said and I believe it.
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Hassan. wrote:
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There are so many things Ahmad... so many things that don't make sense to me.
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Hassan. wrote:
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I used to just say well God will explain...
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Hassan. wrote:
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but I just can't accept that anymore...
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Hassan. wrote:
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I'm afarid that - unlike you - I can't believe it any longer.
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AhmedBahgat wrote:
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there is only one religion that is correct, it is the true religion of Moses, the true religion of Jesus, the true religion of Mohammad and sure the true religion of all other true messengers sent from the one and only God, they all one message for one religion, the religion of the one God
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Hassan. wrote:
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Now this is one of the many things that just doesn't make sense.
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Hassan. wrote:
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I know that Islam says God sent many prophets - but the only ones we know the names of are these:
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Hassan. wrote:
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Adam
Ibrahim
Al-Yas
Ayub
Dawoud
Dhul-Kifl
Harun
Hud
Idris
Iliyas
Isa
Ishaq
Ismail
Lut
Musa
Nuh
Salih
Shuaib
Sulaiman
Uzair
Yaqub
Yahya
Yunas
Yusuf
Zakariya
Muhammad
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Hassan. wrote:
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Where did God send all of them?
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Hassan. wrote:
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To different parts of the world?
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Hassan. wrote:
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To all the nations and tribes in every corner of the globe?
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Hassan. wrote:
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He sent EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM to..... the Middle East.
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Hassan. wrote:
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Don't you find that strange?
I do?
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Hassan. wrote:
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Why didn't God send prophets to Europe, China or America?
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Hassan. wrote:
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(and if he did how come we have "lost" their teachings - or "corrupted them beyond all recognition" - I say that because some have claimed that Krishna, Ram and Buddha were prophets of Islam lol))
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Hassan. wrote:
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Unless I consider the possibility that Islam (and the religions it is derived from Christianity and Judaism) are just ancient Middle Eastern cults - that have nothing to do with the the God of all mankind.
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yeezevee wrote:
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Quote:
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وَرُسُلاً قَدْ قَصَصْنَاهُمْ عَلَيْكَ مِن قَبْلُ وَرُسُلاً لَّمْ نَقْصُصْهُمْ عَلَيْكَ وَكَلَّمَ اللّهُ مُوسَى تَكْلِيمًا (164)
رُّسُلاً مُّبَشِّرِينَ وَمُنذِرِينَ لِئَلاَّ يَكُونَ لِلنَّاسِ عَلَى اللّهِ حُجَّةٌ بَعْدَ الرُّسُلِ وَكَانَ اللّهُ عَزِيزًا حَكِيمًا (165)
-> See, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? وَرُسُلاً قَدْ قَصَصْنَاهُمْ عَلَيْكَ مِن قَبْلُ وَرُسُلاً لَّمْ نَقْصُصْهُمْ عَلَيْكَ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, i.e. ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? And (We sent) messengers We have mentioned to you before and messengers we have not mentioned to you????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????,
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right messengers after messengers., Allah forgot to write the verse, "there will be messengers after Mr. PBUH., "
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Quote:
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i.e. Allah sent many other messengers but He never told us their stories, now why you think that those messengers didn????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t cover every spot on the globe where people lived?, well let me totally slam dunk your argument even if you can prove that some people never received any messages from Allah, see what the next verse says: ....
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yeezevee wrote:
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I see here AhamedBahgat.. PBUH explaing THE SLAM DUNK.. THE SLAM DUNG??
yeezevee
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Hassan. wrote:
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You honestly don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t find it strange that out of all the prophets (some say 124,000) the only evidence we have comes from the Middle East?
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Hassan. wrote:
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The only books of revelation we have ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? comes from the Middle East.
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Hassan. wrote:
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No mention of the stories of Abraham, Moses, the people of Israel, Jesus, Muhammad etc????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????¦ in Australia, China, America Europe or anywhere else.
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Hassan. wrote:
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You honestly don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t find that strange Ahmad?
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Hassan. wrote:
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What was the point of sending so many prophets to all corners of the world if their message was completely lost to the later (and far greater number) of people?
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Hassan. wrote:
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Why is there so much evidence in the Middle East supporting the Judeo-Christian-Islamic traditions?
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Hassan. wrote:
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I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢m not on a mission to turn you away from Islam
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Hassan. wrote:
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????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? I think it was you (or maybe someone else) that said a while ago that I must be here because I am searching.
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Hassan. wrote:
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I thought about that and it is true. In many ways I am a thinking aloud rather than actually trying to tell anyone anything -
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Hassan. wrote:
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I am a lost soul and I admit it
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Hassan. wrote:
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????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? I have lost my faith and I am in a period of crisis and searching and trying to understand what the hell has happened to me ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? where I am spiritually and emotionally ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? and where I am going.
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Hassan. wrote:
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But the longer I discuss these things ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? either here or on Muslims sites ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? the more convinced I am that Islam is indeed just a man made religion.
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Hassan. wrote:
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The last place a Muslim who has lost his faith should go is on the internet ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? whether it be a Muslim site or one like this ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? as he will only be even more convinced that Islam is a man made religion.
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Hassan. wrote:
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I don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t think Muhammad was a liar or a charlatan ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? in fact I believe he was a good man ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? judged by his times ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? and revolutionised his society in many good and positive ways (again judged by the context).
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Hassan. wrote:
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But I simply can no longer believe that what he experienced was God????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s words. I believe he was honest and genuinely believed he was receiving God????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s words ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? but that doesn????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t mean he actually did.
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Hassan. wrote:
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I have to make up my mind by the evidence in front of me and I simply cannot believe it. And the more I look ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? the more I cannot believe it.
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Hassan. wrote:
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I am not against Muslims Ahmad ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? Most of my family and friends are Muslims and I do not try to tell them to leave Islam. Nor do I share the aim of this website or many other people????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s hatred of Islam.
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Hassan. wrote:
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I come here simply to talk ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? and through that I am really exploring my own thoughts and feelings.
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Hassan. wrote:
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I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢d be interested to know why you are here Ahmad?
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AhmedBahgat wrote:
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yeezevee
all your crap above is dismissed, if you know the verse in the Quran that says Mohammad is the last Rasool, please post it, other than this you can keep banging your head on Wiking arse if that makes you excited and makes him horny
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AhmedBahgat wrote:
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i.e. the verse mentioned both together (Rasool and Nabi), the Quran differentiated between the two in very clear manner, this means not evey Nabi is a Rasool but every Rasool is a Nabi, now the verse never said that Mohammad is the last Rasool, it only said he is the last Nabi, if you want to see comelling proofs that a Nabi is different to a Rasool from the Quran, please let me know
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AhmedBahgat wrote:
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i.e. the verse mentioned both together (Rasool and Nabi), the Quran differentiated between the two in very clear manner, this means not evey Nabi is a Rasool but every Rasool is a Nabi, now the verse never said that Mohammad is the last Rasool, it only said he is the last Nabi, if you want to see comelling proofs that a Nabi is different to a Rasool from the Quran, please let me know
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iqram wrote:
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Some guys among the Nabis are Rasool,
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iqram wrote:
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in other words to be Rasool one has to be Nabi first.
If there is no Nabi after Muhammad, that automatically means there is no Rasool after him. . If not, then being a Rasool while not being a Nabi is possible. And that contradicts the boldened part.
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AhmedBahgat wrote:
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now I concede that there is no messenger nor nabi after Mohammad, but that does not change my argument that those who did not receive a messenger will be able to have a plea with Allah acording to what He said in the Quran, i.e. the argument that Allah must send messengers to every spot on earth is invalidated by Him allowing those who will receive non to have a plea with Him
got it?
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iqram wrote:
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Ya, but you say..according to quran, those who did not recieve a messenger could have a plea to Allah (accepted or not). Could you please refer where in quran??
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Quote:
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Quote:
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Quote:
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AhmedBahgat says to yeezevee
Quote:
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Ignorant, do you know what a messenger means first?
well, the Quran never said that Mohammad is the last messenger, why don't you you burry your pinhead in the sand for two hours?, well let me educate you ignorant, the Quran only said the Mohammad is the last Nabi (Prophet), it never said that he was the last Rasool, (Messenger)
so who is the idiot here?
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And says to miss ruby
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Hello miss ruby
good that you are smarter than yeke, however you still failed to walk me through it, but because you have been a good girl
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and writes again to iqram
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now I concede that there is no messenger nor nabi after Mohammad, but that does not change my argument that those who did not receive a messenger will be able to have a plea with Allah acording to what He said in the Quran,
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AhmedBahgat wrote:
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I have already posted that verse to Hassan on this thread (I think)
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AhmedBahgat wrote:
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I have already posted that verse to Hassan on this thread (I think)
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iqram wrote:
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Hmm, but that makes a problem.
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iqram wrote:
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So, muslims should not propagate the words of quran or the teachings of Muhammad,
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iqram wrote:
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to those who have never heared of them.
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iqram wrote:
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I mean, you know, in todays world , muslims are less trusted.
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iqram wrote:
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So, the ignorants (in Islamic sense) might get a better chance by remaining ignorant than being informed about Allah and his religion. (as it's terribly hard to believe in, even after being informed)
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ahmedbahgat wrote:
this is because you can not be a messenger without being a prophet and because Mohammad was the last prophet then no more messengers should come
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The wrote:
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# where did u get that from, bud? i mean where did u read that one has to first be a prophet in order to be a messenger?
## salam...take care, bud! (-:
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Quote:
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ahmedbahgat wrote:
I tried to put it in a simple manner, I agree with you that it is poorly put that it makes it look flawed, what I meant that NOT EVERY NABI IS A RASOOL BUT EVERY RASOOL IS A NABI, this is because a Rasool from Allah still Yunabi with the good and bad news in addition to other tasks
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Quote:
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anyway, I will consider the subject open on my side again and try to understand it again, please let me know what do you think the difference between a Rasool and a Nabi, and if there will be no more Nabis, will be any more Rasools?
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this is just a side argument that I had on FFI, my main argument stays the same, those who received no messnegers may be allowed to have a plea "Hujja" with Allah
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ahmedbahgat wrote:
Yeh man I agree that a Rasool is someone who is sent by Allah, but I wonder why Ibrahim was never called Rasool?
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Quote:
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ahmedbahgat wrote:
I actually agree totally with you regading Ibrahim, I guess the whole thing may be a test from Allah to see what the humans will do as any test of course
Indeed I always believed that ibrahim is a Rasool, and all the verses you posted indirectly incline that, I even have more in the article I started to write two years ago and never finsihed
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I guess I have to pass on the subject as it wonlt do any good to me really, I will just take it that every Rasool is a Nabi
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and based on that fact will it mean that because no more nabis there will be no more rasools?, a final and repeated question mate,
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# if u take it that every rasul is a nabi, then yes, it would mean no more nabi and no more rasul!
## salam...take care, bud! (-:
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