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The God, His Messengers & Prohpets - Proving the belief in Allah
- Sat 22 Dec, 2007 5:01 pm
Post subject: Proving the belief in Allah
Hello all

As many who read my discussion on FFI web sites with many of the goons in there, you should know that I always say: the belief can not be proved, because in such case it can't be belief any more, and this must be 100% logical, for example, if you are required to give witness at court regarding a getaway car used in a murder that you claim to have seen, in court you can�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??t say I believe it was a red car, you will be cornered quickly by the prosecutor or the defence (whoever is on the other side) and your witnessing will have no value if you kept saying you believe, however if you come and say the car was 100% red, then this may be highly considered by all.

I was not actually aware that a verse in the Quran says something similar, however I know the verse well, it just hit me while writing a comment to brother BMZ on Sahara web site (www.councilofexmuslims.com), that it says exactly the same

Let's have a look:

Are they waiting to see if the angels come to them, or thy Lord (Himself), or certain of the signs of thy Lord! The day when certain signs of thy Lord do come, no good will it do to a soul to believe then if it believed not before nor earned righteousness through its faith. Say: Wait, we too are waiting.
[The Quran ; 6:158]

هَلْ يَنظُرُونَ إِلاَّ أَن تَأْتِيهُمُ الْمَلآئِكَةُ أَوْ يَأْتِيَ رَبُّكَ أَوْ يَأْتِيَ بَعْضُ آيَاتِ رَبِّكَ يَوْمَ يَأْتِي بَعْضُ آيَاتِ رَبِّكَ لاَ يَنفَعُ نَفْسًا إِيمَانُهَا لَمْ تَكُنْ آمَنَتْ مِن قَبْلُ أَوْ كَسَبَتْ فِي إِيمَانِهَا خَيْرًا قُلِ انتَظِرُواْ إِنَّا مُنتَظِرُونَ (158)

-> The verse above is talking about those who don�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??t want to believe, so Allah is cornering them with a clear fact about His laws, Are they waiting to see if the angels come to them,, which means are the kafiroon waiting in defiance against belief until the angels of death come to them, Allah also may come to them too: or thy Lord (Himself), i.e. are the kafiroon waiting in defiance against belief until Allah comes Himself to take their souls back, or are they waiting until certain signs of the JD come: or certain of the signs of thy Lord! , i.e. are the Kafiroon waiting in defiance against belief until certain signs of the JD come, obviously we are talking about kafiroon who are still alive and witnessed those certain signs of the JD when they come, now Allah told us next something more regarding the those kafiroon who are alive and witnessed certain signs of the JD, of course Allah existence will be PROVEN on that day, therefore the kafiroon who kept asking to prove the existence of God will certainly believe on that day after witnessing the first signs of the JD, would their belief be accepted , NO BECAUSE IT CAN�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??T BE A BELIEF ANY MORE, the Game is Over: The day when certain signs of thy Lord do come, no good will it do to a soul to believe then if it believed not before nor earned righteousness through its faith , Subhan Allah, I just discovered something very impressive in this bit, the first part clearly says that on that day when the signs come (the proofs they asked for) no belief will be accepted if it wan not before witnessing those signs, but look what the last bit says: nor earned righteousness through its faith, i.e. even those who call themselves BELIEVERS without being righteous, will have the same fate as the kafiroon, i.e. for those believers to be righteous after witnessing the signs, will not be accepted either, how fair is that?

The verse finally ended with sort of mocking those idiots who keep asking for proofs regarding the exiistance of Allah while claiming to be WAITING for it to believe, many said so on FFI and other web sites, hahahaha, read this: Say: Wait, we too are waiting.

Awesome verse , I�?????�????�???�??�?�¢??m highly impressed indeed

Take care all
- Sun 23 Dec, 2007 1:28 am
Post subject:
Quote:
ahmedbahgat wrote:
I just discovered something very impressive in this bit, the first part clearly says that on that day when the signs come (the proofs they asked for) no belief will be accepted if it wan not before witnessing those signs, but look what the last bit says: nor earned righteousness through its faith, i.e. even those who call themselves BELIEVERS without being righteous, will have the same fate as the kafiroon, i.e. for those believers to be righteous after witnessing the signs, will not be accepted either, how fair is that?


# very interesting....

...but what exactly is being "righteous"?

## i have stumbled upon this (what exactly is "righteous") too often without gathering much benefit! )-:

# take care...salam! (-:
- Sun 23 Dec, 2007 6:49 pm
Post subject:
unworded wrote:
# very interesting....
...but what exactly is being "righteous"? ## i have stumbled upon this (what exactly is "righteous") too often without gathering much benefit! )-: # take care...salam! (-:



Salam mate

Welcome to Free-Islam (FI)

The Quran actually answered your question directly, the answer also show us that righteous is not just to pray and point to a specific direction, rather a few things that must be done in addition to establishing salat , let's have a look:

لَّيْسَ الْبِرَّ أَن تُوَلُّواْ وُجُوهَكُمْ قِبَلَ الْمَشْرِقِ وَالْمَغْرِبِ وَلَكِنَّ الْبِرَّ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَالْمَلآئِكَةِ وَالْكِتَابِ وَالنَّبِيِّينَ وَآتَى الْمَالَ عَلَى حُبِّهِ ذَوِي الْقُرْبَى وَالْيَتَامَى وَالْمَسَاكِينَ وَابْنَ السَّبِيلِ وَالسَّآئِلِينَ وَفِي الرِّقَابِ وَأَقَامَ الصَّلاةَ وَآتَى الزَّكَاةَ وَالْمُوفُونَ بِعَهْدِهِمْ إِذَا عَاهَدُواْ وَالصَّابِرِينَ فِي الْبَأْسَاء والضَّرَّاء وَحِينَ الْبَأْسِ أُولَئِكَ الَّذِينَ صَدَقُوا وَأُولَئِكَ هُمُ الْمُتَّقُونَ (177)

The righteous is not that you turn your faces towards the east and the west, but the righteous is he who believes in Allah and the last day and the angels and the Book and the prophets, and happily gives away money, to the relatives and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and those who ask, and to free the slaves, and establishes the prayer and pays the poor-due; and the ones who keep their covenant when they make a covenant, and those who are patient in hardship and tribulation, and during hardship, these are the ones who are truthful and these are the ones who fear (Allah).
[Al Quran ; 2:177]

-> See how clear it is: The righteous is not that you turn your faces towards the east and the west but the righteous is he who believes in Allah and the last day and the angels and the Book and the prophets, and happily gives away money, to the relatives and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and those who ask, and to free the slaves, and establishes the prayer and pays the poor-due; and the ones who keep their covenant when they make a covenant, and those who are patient in hardship and tribulation, and during hardship, these are the ones who are truthful and these are the ones who fear (Allah).

Take care
- Sun 23 Dec, 2007 9:52 pm
Post subject:
Quote:
ahmedbahgat wrote:
Salam mate

Welcome to Free-Islam (FI)


# thanks, bud! (-:

...so the one who is not patient...who keeps not the covenants...who aids not the needy...(and guards not modesty), is such a one to share the fate of a kafir?

## salam! (-:
- Sun 23 Dec, 2007 10:07 pm
Post subject:
[quote="The"]
Quote:
ahmedbahgat wrote:
Salam mate

Welcome to Free-Islam (FI)


The wrote:

# thanks, bud! (-:


Salam mate

good to see you

The wrote:
...so the one who is not patient...who keeps not the covenants...who aids not the needy...(and guards not modesty), is such a one to share the fate of a kafir?
## salam! (-:


I'm not really sure if they meet the exact fate of the kafirs in regards to the punishment, however they share the same fate with them and all of us for that matter that on the day when the signs of the JD come, no good can be achieved regarding those believers who are in clear errer because they did not earn righteousness through their faith

take care
- Sun 23 Dec, 2007 10:34 pm
Post subject:
# is really commendable the constancy with which u keep striving against the misguided peeps...alhamdulillah!

...hopefully, i will be learning more from u and others!

Quote:

I'm not really sure if they meet the exact fate of the kafirs in regards to the punishment, however they share the same fate with them and all of us for that matter that on the day when the signs of the JD come, no good can be achieved regarding those believers who are in clear errer because they did not earn righteousness through their faith


# frankly, i was concerned with myself at the point i wrote that...i can identify myself with those who seem to not gain much spiritual benefit thru faith...and that's the reason i posed that question!

...god have mercy on us and guide us!

## salam...take care! (-:
- Mon 24 Dec, 2007 8:12 am
Post subject:
The wrote:
# is really commendable the constancy with which u keep striving against the misguided peeps...alhamdulillah!

...hopefully, i will be learning more from u and others!


Thanks mate

I actually learn from you too, this is what Muslims should do with each others, accoridng to the Quran btw


Quote:

I'm not really sure if they meet the exact fate of the kafirs in regards to the punishment, however they share the same fate with them and all of us for that matter that on the day when the signs of the JD come, no good can be achieved regarding those believers who are in clear errer because they did not earn righteousness through their faith


The wrote:

# frankly, i was concerned with myself at the point i wrote that...i can identify myself with those who seem to not gain much spiritual benefit thru faith...and that's the reason i posed that question!


to be honest bro, i became more concern about myself too after finding out the message in this verse, i never took note of it before

The wrote:

...god have mercy on us and guide us!

## salam...take care! (-:


Ameen

Salam
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