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| BMZ wrote: |
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Hello, Ahmed
I think Hadith collectors were worse than the stamp collectors. At least the stamp collectors get mostly genuine stamps. I also believe that most of the hadith collectors never checked any hadith under the shade or light of Qur'aan. Hence the result that we have so many junk ahadith. For two hundred years or more, people followed only Qur'aan and only heard the genuine sayings of our dear Prophet. I just hope our Muslim brothers and sisters start reading Qur'aan and get Allah's message direct. As for me, after I read the alleged ahadith, I disposed of all ahahdith collections. Hadith collections give me the creeps. Salaams Baig |
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| Rigel wrote: |
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Salam brother,
If bukhari was not arab how come all his wiritngs are in arabic ? Non arabs depend alot on hadiths because they dont understand Quran, but why does arab speakers depend on hadith. |
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| AhmedBahgat wrote: | ||
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Salam All
It?????????????????????¢??s been long time since last sunnah lesson by mister Bukhari, I really missed his silly and laughable lessons, I can assure you that we have still too many lessons to go though. In one of the previous Bukhari lessons about Wudo http://www.free-islam.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=4250#4250 We witnessed how useless such hadith in there, in that lesson I posted the following two Quran verses: O you who have believed! Do not come near the prayer when you are confused until you know what you say, nor when you are unclean -unless being travelers on the road- until you wash yourselves; and if you are sick or on a journey or the call of nature comes to anyone of you or you have touched the women, but you cannot find water then use clean soil, and wipe your faces and your hands; indeed Allah is Pardoning, Forgiving. [Al Quran ; 4:43] يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ لاَ تَقْرَبُواْ الصَّلاَةَ وَأَنتُمْ سُكَارَى حَتَّىَ تَعْلَمُواْ مَا تَقُولُونَ وَلاَ جُنُبًا إِلاَّ عَابِرِي سَبِيلٍ حَتَّىَ تَغْتَسِلُواْ وَإِن كُنتُم مَّرْضَى أَوْ عَلَى سَفَرٍ أَوْ جَاء أَحَدٌ مِّنكُم مِّن الْغَآئِطِ أَوْ لاَمَسْتُمُ النِّسَاء فَلَمْ تَجِدُواْ مَاء فَتَيَمَّمُواْ صَعِيدًا طَيِّبًا فَامْسَحُواْ بِوُجُوهِكُمْ وَأَيْدِيكُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ كَانَ عَفُوًّا غَفُورًا (43) -> Clearly, Allah told us when we should perform Tayamum, see: فَلَمْ تَجِدُواْ مَاء فَتَيَمَّمُواْ , i.e. but you cannot find water then use clean soil, it cannot get clearer than this: THE ONLY REASON TO DO TAYAMUM IS WHEN WE CANNOT FIND WATER This clear command from Allah was repeated in another verse, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look: O you who believed! When you stand up for the prayer, wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet up to the ankles; and if you are unclean then purify yourselves, and if you are sick or on a journey or the call of nature comes to anyone of you or you have touched the women, but you cannot find water then use clean soil, and wipe your faces and your hands from it (the clean soil); Allah does not want to put on you any difficulty, but He wants to purify you and complete His favor upon you, so that you may give thanks. [Al Quran ; 5:6] يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ إِذَا قُمْتُمْ إِلَى الصَّلاةِ فاغْسِلُواْ وُجُوهَكُمْ وَأَيْدِيَكُمْ إِلَى الْمَرَافِقِ وَامْسَحُواْ بِرُؤُوسِكُمْ وَأَرْجُلَكُمْ إِلَى الْكَعْبَينِ وَإِن كُنتُمْ جُنُبًا فَاطَّهَّرُواْ وَإِن كُنتُم مَّرْضَى أَوْ عَلَى سَفَرٍ أَوْ جَاء أَحَدٌ مَّنكُم مِّنَ الْغَائِطِ أَوْ لاَمَسْتُمُ النِّسَاء فَلَمْ تَجِدُواْ مَاء فَتَيَمَّمُواْ صَعِيدًا طَيِّبًا فَامْسَحُواْ بِوُجُوهِكُمْ وَأَيْدِيكُم مِّنْهُ مَا يُرِيدُ اللّهُ لِيَجْعَلَ عَلَيْكُم مِّنْ حَرَجٍ وَلَكِن يُرِيدُ لِيُطَهَّرَكُمْ وَلِيُتِمَّ نِعْمَتَهُ عَلَيْكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَشْكُرُونَ (6) -> How clear again: فَلَمْ تَجِدُواْ مَاء فَتَيَمَّمُواْ , i.e. but you cannot find water then use clean soil, i.e.: THE ONLY REASON TO DO TAYAMUM IS WHEN WE CANNOT FIND WATER Mister Bukhari in his man made book is telling us something else as a reason to do Tayamum, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look from a chapter in his book that he named التيمم , Al-Tayamum, i.e. Using clean soil to purify the self if we cannot find water The following hadith has no number, it seems that it is part of the introduction for that chapter; however we still need to look at it: http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?Doc=0&Rec=579
The above is not a saying by anyone, rather an explanation to the purpose of the hadith to follow for which a sub-title was given as: إذا خاف الجنب على نفسه المرض أو الموت أو خاف العطش , i.e. If one who is not clean fears to be sick, or fears death, or fears thirst, upon himself. Bukhari means that, if any Muslim is Junub (no purified), he/she can do Tayamum if he/she fears to be sick or to be thirst or to die, if he/she uses water. So, for Bukhari to justify his new man made law, he said that it was mentioned that Amr Ibn Al-Aas used to do Tayamum when he was Junub because the night was cold. Then Bukhari brought in the following verse: O you who believed! Do not eat your money among yourselves in falsehood, except that it is a trade by your mutual consent; and do not kill yourselves; indeed Allah is Merciful to you. [Al Quran ; 4:29] يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ لاَ تَأْكُلُواْ أَمْوَالَكُمْ بَيْنَكُمْ بِالْبَاطِلِ إِلاَّ أَن تَكُونَ تِجَارَةً عَن تَرَاضٍ مِّنكُمْ وَلاَ تَقْتُلُواْ أَنفُسَكُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ كَانَ بِكُمْ رَحِيمًا (29) Bukhari did not even put down the whole verse, rather the last sentence of it, a typical move by the hadith worshippers, this is what Bukhari listed only from 4:29 ?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦. وَلاَ تَقْتُلُواْ أَنفُسَكُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ كَانَ بِكُمْ رَحِيمًا , i.e. ?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦. and do not kill yourselves; indeed Allah is Merciful to you. Now you can see what Bukhari wanted to do, he is telling us that if the weather is cold, which means the water would be cold, and because if we do Wudo with it, we may get sick, we should do Tayamum instead which should be justified by the Quran verse 4:29 when it said at the end: and do not kill yourselves; indeed Allah is Merciful to you. Bukhari even tried harder to convince the people with the man made law that was invented regarding when we should do Tayamum, by telling g us at the end of the above chapter introduction, that the people told the prophet about what Amr Ibn Al-Aas used to do, but the prophet said nothing, i.e. he was ok with it that we do Tayamum when the water is cold. Now, I have serious problem with the above: Firstly, if I take it as such, then I must be a Mushrik because I will be taking the following two commands: 1) To do Tayamum when there is no water (from Allah) 2) To do Tayamum when there is water but it is cold (from Bukhari) Clearly, I have to be a Mushrik. Remember verse 42:21 Or have they associates who have prescribed for them in the religion that Allah does not sanction? And were it not for the word of judgment, decision would have certainly been given between them; and surely the unjust shall have a painful punishment. [The Quran ; 42:21] أَمْ لَهُمْ شُرَكَاء شَرَعُوا لَهُم مِّنَ الدِّينِ مَا لَمْ يَأْذَن بِهِ اللَّهُ وَلَوْلَا كَلِمَةُ الْفَصْلِ لَقُضِيَ بَيْنَهُمْ وَإِنَّ الظَّالِمِينَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ (21) -> See, ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? أَمْ لَهُمْ شُرَكَاء شَرَعُوا لَهُم مِّنَ الدِّينِ مَا لَمْ يَأْذَن بِهِ اللَّهُ?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, i.e. Or have they associates who have prescribed for them in the religion that Allah does not sanction?, and we know well that Allah never sanctioned doing Tayamum when the water is cold, therefore Bukhari must be one of those who prescribed to us in the religion that which Allah never sanctioned, and consequently anyone who takes what Bukhari prescribed in addition to what Allah prescribed, MUST BE A MUSHRIK. How clear. Some may say: Hold on, Bukhari has a valid point according to 4:29 so we do not kill ourselves. I say, then lets?????????????????????¢?? see what Al-Tabari said in explaining 4:29, not what I said, as some people accuse me that I interpret the Quran according to my desires, so my desires are out of the picture in here, let?????????????????????¢??s see what Al-Tabari desire was in explaining that part in 4:29 which Bukhari used to justify his invented law:
See what Al-Tabarai said regarding ?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦. وَلاَ تَقْتُلُواْ أَنفُسَكُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ كَانَ بِكُمْ رَحِيمًا He said that it means, do not kill one another, i.e. do not fight with yourselves and kill each other Bukhari however understood it as killing the self, and I should say, that Bukhari may have a point of understanding it that way, i.e. killing the self, but that cannot be used to change Allah laws other than what He said to us already. For example, Allah ordained on us the fasting of Ramadan, but He exempted those who are sick, therefore the exemption came from Allah, not from another human Another clear example is doing Wudo with clean soil (Tayamum) when we cannot find water. As Allah clearly told us twice in verse 4:43 & 5:6, try to remember the two verses by remembering that 4+4+3=11 and 5+6=11 Bukhari on the other hand is giving us exemption on top of an exemption, which is to do Tayamum if we find water but the water is cold because we may be sick, so if we do Wudo using cold water we will be of those who are killing themselves, and because we should not do that, then we should do Tayamum instead of Wudo even if we can find water. Bukhari excuse has to be non sensible because if do that then anything can be done too, for example: I will not pray when it is freezing cold because if I get out of bed, I will be sick I will not go to the mosque because if I walk in the street and I may get killed by a robber I will not go to Hajj because the ship may sink, or the plane may fall from the sky I can keep going, and bring so many silly excuses which will still be logical under 4:29 which says: and do not kill yourselves. The bottom line is this, Allah clearly told us when we should do Tayamum, when we cannot find water. Period If you take what Bukhari is teaching you, which is to ALSO do Tayamum when there is water but the weather is cold, then YOU MUST BE A MUSHRIK Ironically how cold is cold can not be the same for everyone. Here you have it, another clear example to how the books of Bukhari teach you to be a Mushrik. Not forgetting that having these man made books from the first place next to the Book of Allah is clear cut shirk, it is like SHIRK UPON SHIRK, no wonder we read in the Quran that most of those who believe in Allah, they do believe in Him but only while they are Mushrikoon (12:106) Salam |
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| WittyBoy wrote: | ||||||||||||||||||||
You say exactly the opposite. When you were a Muslim, Didn't you know that Allah gives you a great reward just because of a very ordinary things? Read this for example:
What is this? Allah is looking for anything good in your deeds to forgive you, what's this great effort i do when i shake hand a Muslim? Isn't it a mercy from Allah? Another Example:
seventy thousand angels pray for you till the evening/morning just because you visited a sick? Is it a mercy? Do you know what's the GREAT deed you can do and protect you from hell? Give a half of a date in charity!!! and the prophet add if you don't have this half of date, by saying a good saying to a Muslim! It's not my own sayings,
Is it a mercy??
Do you know that you find mercy even in recording your deeds?
What about what already has been recorded??
O, My Lord, Indeed you are the Most Merciful. Read this Qudsi hadith
and after all of that, The mercy of Allah -in the day of judgment- will be times over that.
Do you know that the reward of some dua(saying) is that Allah forgives all your sins(only by some words)? Finally, i think you have known these verses but you forgot them
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| fakknows wrote: |
| To Ahmed Baghat, |
| fakknows wrote: |
| This is the whole point why im not a muslim anymore. |
| fakknows wrote: |
| Im not to sure how you interpret the quran and hadith literally or illiterally. |
| fakknows wrote: |
| This religion is so mixed up muslims cant decide a proper way to practice it, just look at the number of sects. |
| fakknows wrote: |
| the salafis/wahabis accuse others of shirk, other accuse the salafis/wahabis of shirk. There is no brotherhood and unity in your religion, just disunity. one calling the other non-muslims. |
| fakknows wrote: |
| You seem to be very good example of your religion |
| fakknows wrote: |
| (That really isnt a good thing in the eyes of non-muslims). |
| fakknows wrote: |
| You are a walking talking advertisment why anyone should not become a muslim. |
| fakknows wrote: |
| FFI should pay you for doing such a good job to show islam in a bad light. im sure you have convinced many borderline muslims to discard their religion. Well done mate, more for us then. |
| fakknows wrote: |
| Why would you say what wittyboy picked to show gods mercy is incorrect. |
| fakknows wrote: |
|
you wrote '
'Not sure what you are doing dear brother? so the Quran could not make him a Muslim, you think such rubbish hadith and the lies about Allah in what you call hadith qudsi will make him a Muslim? |
| fakknows wrote: |
|
You said:
Dont waste your time with both the arrogant unbelievers and the rubbish lies of hadith about Allah' |
| fakknows wrote: |
| So again you accuse whatever sect wittyboys following to be liars. |
| fakknows wrote: |
| At least decide whats what before you decide to call each others group of commiting shirk. |
| fakknows wrote: |
|
P.S
I will save you a place in hell :tongueout: |
| BMZ wrote: |
|
Salaams, Ahmed
Enjoyed reading your slam dunk. If I were you, I would have asked the asshole the following question: "Did you ever ask your own mother extremely personal questions about your father's intimacy with her during her menstrual periods?" Salaams BMZ |
| AhmedBahgat wrote: | ||
Salam mate This is indeed a very good question that should be put before Al-Mushrikoon and hadith worshippers Cheers |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| @ AhmadBahgat |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
|
Any fair judgment issued by a just judge, should define why the accused was convicted. We didn't see a punishment without a crime. So when Allah said:
{1}Perish the hands of the Father of Flame! perish he! {2} No profit to him from all his wealth, and all his gains! {3} Burnt soon will he be in a Fire of blazing Flame! [al-Masad] Who is this man who was cursed and will be punished by Allah without any sins mentioned? |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| Another Question: |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| How can a Muslim have an legitimate Marriage? |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| About the concept of "Shirk", |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| It is the association of God with other partners equal to Him in attributes and worship. |
| muhmed terror head wrote: |
|
إِنَّكُمْ وَمَا تَعْبُدُونَ مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ حَصَبُ جَهَنَّمَ أَنْتُمْ لَهَا وَارِدُونَ الأنبياء: 98
احْشُرُوا الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُوا وَأَزْوَاجَهُمْ وَمَا كَانُوا يَعْبُدُونَ ,(*) مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ فَاهْدُوهُمْ إِلَى صِرَاطِ الْجَحِيمِ |
| muhmed terror head wrote: |
|
إthe 1st is al anbya 98
the 2nd is safat 23:22 |
| muhmed terror head wrote: |
| this verse of quran say that he(ALLAH) will punish the oppstils and what THAY WORSHIP in hell,now this is verry strange how would allah put your idols in hell,? |
| muhmed terror head wrote: |
|
إ the moon ,the sun the thunder, the birds ,the sky,the cows,...etc.
ok we are responsible but what did the cow,camel ,dogs fault if i worsheped them..! |
| muhmed terror head wrote: |
|
إ and the sun how do u through the sun in hell its almost the same for it.
hope you realy understand arabic then its so easy to just read that verse of quran and know what i mean. |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| When I consider al-Bukhari's book as the most authentic book after Quran, How does this match with the concept of shirk? |
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| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
| And who gives a fuk about who is that man, he sounds like a bad guy bound to hell along with his wife, and that is enough for me to know. |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| I know it's enough for you and for me too. But Do you know about Allah that He gives a punishment without mentioning why? Is it what happened with Satan, Pharaoh , Qaroun/Korah , or al Sameri ? |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| How can a Muslim have an legitimate Marriage? |
| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
| Haha, funny indeed, as if people did not marry before Islam. Well, the verses you brought in is talking about legitimate marriage between that guy Abi Lahab and his wife, and guess what, they were not Muslims, hahahah |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| So how can a Muslim have such a legitimate marriage? |
| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
| If I take laws from person A, as well, take laws from person B, then I must be a Mushrik between person A and person B, |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
|
mmmm, what about this verse?
"O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah" |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
|
If this verse was like this, you would be right, but the complete verse is:
"O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: that is best, and most suitable for final determination." [an-Nisaa: 59] |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
|
before answering, please read the post till the end..
Allah(Almighty) said that if you believe in Allah, refer this thing you differ in, to Allah and His Messenger. More than this, Allah swore by Himself that we won't believe until we do so, |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| But no, by thy Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction.[an-Nisaa: 65] |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| I think you will say that "Referring to Allah and His Messenger" means going back to Quran,.. but the following verse is very clear, |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| When it is said to them: "Come to what Allah hath revealed, and to the Messenger": thou seest the Hypocrites avert their faces from thee in disgust. [an-Nisaa: 61] |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| Come to what Allah hath revealed AND to the Messenger. "To what Allah has revealed" is Quran, so what's the other thing with the Messenger they have to come to? |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| I completely agree with you. I can add that all these people you mentioned, we knew what they had done, and they were individuals, but Allah specially mentioned Abu-Lahab like as we know him and what he did, and we already know that through hadiths. |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| @ AhmedBahgat |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| If you believe in the truth, How can you convince me with this way in discussion? |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| Does that what Quran say? Do you remember how Yusuf call the two disbelievers in the prison? |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
|
{39} "O my two companions of the prison! (I ask you): are many lords differing among themselves better, or Allah, the One Supreme and Irresistible?[Yusuf]
He didn't say "O Mushrikon" |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
|
{37} His companion said to him, in the course of the argument with him: "Dost thou deny Him Who created thee out of the dust, then out of a sperm-drop, then fashioned thee into a man? [al-Kahf]
in the course of argument, not fighting. |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
|
{43} "Go, both of you to Fir'aun, for he has indeed transgressed all bounds;
{44} "But speak to him mildly; perchance he may take warning or fear (Allah)" [Ta-Ha] {159}It is part of the Mercy of Allah that thou dost deal gently with them. Wert thou severe or harsh-hearted, they would have broken away from about thee..[Al-i-'Imran] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
|
1-
I don't want you to say about Allah what you don't know, |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| but Allah never mentioned a punishment without reason, in this incident Allah didn't mention the reason because we all know it except you, that's all. |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
|
2-
I still waiting for the legitimate marriage in Quran. |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
|
3-
You said that the order to obey Allah and His Messenger was when the prophet(pbuh) alive, and after his death, we have to obey Allah only, so in your opinion, these verses have been abrogated after the prophet death !!!!! |
| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
| That is right, what Allah has revealed through the messenger, i.e. to come to what Allah has revealed, it has to happen through what the messenger delivered. Now, what the messenger delivered is nothing but Quran and inherited oral sunnah like how to pray fast and do hajj, nothing more. |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
|
Let's see what this verse talks about:
{60} Hast thou not turned thy vision to those who declare that they believe in the revelations that have come to thee and to those before thee? Their (real) wish is to resort together for judgment (in their disputes) to the Evil One, though they were ordered to reject him. But Satan's wish is to lead them astray far away (from the Right). {61}When it is said to them: "Come to what Allah hath revealed, and to the Messenger": thou seest the Hypocrites avert their faces from thee in disgust. |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| They wanted to resort together for judgment to Evil one, |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| but Allah told them " No, come to Quran and to the Messenger", do you think what's meant is to resort for judgment to the oral Sunnah like how to pray and fast? |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| Come to what Allah hath revealed AND to the Messenger. "To what Allah has revealed" is Quran, so what's the other thing with the Messenger they have to come to? |
| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
| The thing that Allah revealed to the messenger |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| I don't know what you excatly mean, Do you mean oral Sunnah, or Quran? If you mean oral Sunnah, people can't resort for judgment to the oral Sunnah , if you mean Quran, it's impossible to say "Come to what Allah has revealed, and Quran" !!! |
| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
| Well, and who is Zul Qarnain? The one your man made rubbish of crap tafsir tell us that Zul Qarnain is Alexander the great Fag. |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
|
{83}They ask thee concerning Zul-qarnain Say, "I will rehearse to you something of his story."
{84}Verily We established his power on earth, and We gave him the ways and the means to all ends....[Al-Kahf] Allah told us about Zul Qarnain because it's unknown for us, but didn't tell us about Abu lahab, because he is already known for us. |
| sum wrote: |
|
Hello WittyBoy
Should the ahadith relating to Muhammad`s alleged deeds that iffo mentions be accepted or not? I suspect that your post is simply a way of avoiding acceptance of matters that cause you to be "uncomfortable". sum |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| All sahih hadiths are accepted for sure, |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| Yes, there can be wrong hadiths in the sahih al-Bukhari or sahih Muslim, |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
|
2-
I still waiting for the legitimate marriage in Quran. |
| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
| Keep waiting, it is going to happen when I want it to happen, not when you want it to happen |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| I'm not waiting, I'm sure you will find nothing. |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
|
3-
You said that the order to obey Allah and His Messenger was when the prophet(pbuh) alive, and after his death, we have to obey Allah only, so in your opinion, these verses have been abrogated after the prophet death !!!!! |
| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
| you should bloody have read that all that Muhammed said as commanded by Allah is documented in Quran, over 300 times Say, ay, Say, Say. Therefore by obeying the Quran that Muhammed delieverd, we should be obeying Allah and His messenger. |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
|
{27} Allah will establish in strength those who believe, with the Word that stands firm, in this world and in the Hereafter; but Allah will leave, to stray, those who do wrong: Allah doeth what He willeth.[Ibraheem]
- You have said that this order to obey The Prophet(pbuh) was when he was alive |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| - Now, you said that obeying the prophet(pbuh) means following Quran which includes Allah's commands to him. |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
|
The first opinion is completely wrong. About the second point, obeying the prophet(pbuh) by following Quran is wrong too because Allah already ordered us to follow Quran.
- Do you think that means "Follow Quran, and follow what Muhammad delivered"?! |
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| WittyBoy wrote: |
| - Using word "Obey" two times, means there are two obeyed things, we knew Quran is one of them, so what's the other thing? Quran too? |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| but Allah told them " No, come to Quran and to the Messenger", do you think what's meant is to resort for judgment to the oral Sunnah like how to pray and fast? |
| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
| Well, it can apply to anything related to explaining Quran |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| Quran is for people in all times, so how we can get this explanation now? |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| I don't know what you excatly mean, Do you mean oral Sunnah, or Quran? If you mean oral Sunnah, people can't resort for judgment to the oral Sunnah , if you mean Quran, it's impossible to say "Come to what Allah has revealed, and Quran" !!! |
| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
| Again, anything that is Quran related, this is what Allah told us in Quran, the prophet should explain to us what was sent down to us, i.e. the Quran |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| So the meaning of the verse is "Come to what Allah has revealed and Quran" OR "Come to what Allah has revealed and Explanation of Quran which - according to you- we know nothing about it" |
| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
| Allah told us about Zul Qarnain because it's unknown for us, but didn't tell us about Abu lahab, because he is already known for us. |
| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
|
But you did not reply to the argument showing how confused your associates who wrote the man made books of tafsir
They told us that he is Alexander the great Fag, do you believe that or not? |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| We aren't talking about tafsir now. |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| @ AhmedBahgat |
| Quote: |
| Forget marriage you confused boy, let?????????????????????¢??s see if how to pray is explained in... (some crap can't be said by a true Muslim) |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| Debating you is over at this point, |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| because you are disabled to meet the challenge and get from Quran even how to have a legitimate Islamic Marriage. |
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| WittyBoy wrote: |
| From the beginning you proved that you aren't a true Muslim by your immoral way in discussion which obviously breaches the Quran teachings in discussion. |
| WittyBoy wrote: | ||
The second proof that you aren't a true Muslim is your misunderstanding to Quran is the following,
Prophets was inviting unbelievers to obey them and believe in their messages, the situation is different, the verse i mentioned said : "O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey the Messenger" |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| The third proof of your misunderstanding of Quran, |
| Quote: |
| See: And We have certainly given you seven verses AND the great Quran. , while the seven verses are part of the great Quran, yet Allah used the WAW in between while referring to one thing, THE QURAN |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| But Allah didn't say :"We given you seven verses, and given you the great Quran", but He(Almighty) said: "obey Allah, and obey the Messenger", and said too: "Come to what Allah hath revealed, and to the Messenger" |
| Quote: |
| The Quran used the word 'Obey' in the same sentence one time to command obeying Allah and His messenger 6 times in Quran |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| So what?? |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| Did they obligate the verse mentioned or what?? they don't deny this statement: "O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you." |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| of course it doesn't mean "follow Quran, and follow Quran, and those charged...." |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| another verse said "Come to what Allah hath revealed, and to the Messenger" |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| of course it doesn't mean "come to Quran, and to Quran" |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| the forth proof of misunderstanding Quran: |
| Quote: |
| See: Whoever obeys the messenger, then he has certainly obeyed Allah , i.e. it is ONE OBEYING, not two obeying as the Mushrikoon lie while tap dancing to justify their crime of shirk. |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| :*) |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| you used a verse proves you wrong, |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| this verse presents an indirect obeying, of course it's not Quran. |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| Let's see your valuable arguments: |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
|
About the details of prayers,
I didn't claim that they exist in Hadiths collections, |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| you challenged me to prove something i didn't claim at all, |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| but it's you who claim that Quran includes all Islamic laws and rules. |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| It's you who has to meet this challenge and get the details of prayers from Quran, |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| if not, then don't come up with a claim bigger than you. |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
|
About forbidding writing hadiths,
The Prophet(pbuh) forbade that not to mix Quran with hadiths but He allowed it later, |
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| WittyBoy wrote: |
|
Abu Dawood , Book 25, Number 3639:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-'As: I used to write everything which I heard from the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him). I intended (by it) to memorise it. The Quraysh prohibited me saying: Do you write everything that you hear from him while the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) is a human being: he speaks in anger and pleasure? So I stopped writing, and mentioned it to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him). He signalled with his finger to him mouth and said: Write, by Him in Whose hand my soul lies, only right comes out from it. |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
|
Abu Dawood, Book 25, Number 3652:
Narrated Zayd ibn Thabit: I heard the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) say: May Allah brighten a man who hears a tradition from us, gets it by heart and passes it on to others. Many a bearer of knowledge conveys it to one who is more versed than he is; and many a bearer of knowledge is not versed in it. |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
|
al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 3, Number 113:
Narrated Abu Huraira: There is none among the companions of the Prophet who has narrated more Hadiths than I except 'Abdallah bin Amr (bin Al-'As) who used to write them and I never did the same. |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
|
al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 3, Number 112:
Narrated Abu Huraira: .....In the meantime a man from Yemen came and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Get that written for me." The Prophet ordered his companions to write that for him.... |
| Quote: |
| How the Muslims did in the first 200 years when your man made books of your associates were not invented yet? |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| Simply people who memorized these hadiths used to teach them to the others, but by the time, these hadiths would be forgotten without writing, this doesn't need explanation at all. |
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| AhmedBahgat wrote: | ||
Read above first ^^^^^
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| BMZ wrote: |
|
Salaams, Ahmed.
I know the boy may be witty, but is he wise or not? |
| BMZ wrote: |
|
I feel like calling him Witty Boy Ibne Ahlal-Hadith.
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| Al-Khateeb Al-Bughdadi wrote: |
| It is proven that despising to write (the hadith) by the very early people was only for the fear that these books will compete against the book of Allah, exalted is He. |
| Al-Khateeb Al-Bughdadi wrote: |
| Or the fear that the people will get busy with anything but Quran. |
| Al-Khateeb Al-Bughdadi wrote: |
| And this prohibition was about: |
| Al-Khateeb Al-Bughdadi wrote: |
| 1-The old scriptures because we cannot know its truthfulness from its falsehood, despite that the Quran is sufficient and is overruling them. |
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| Al-Khateeb Al-Bughdadi wrote: |
| 2- Hadith books during the early time of Islam because there was only a few Fuqahaa (experts in understanding religion) during that time who can differentiate between revelation from Allah and whatever else. This is because most of the Bedouins were not expert in the religion yet, nor did they accompanied the knowledgeable Ulaama, So they thought that they might mix what they find written in books with the Quran, then wrongly think that these Man Made books are revelation from Allah. |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| @ AhmedBahgat |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| I showed you that what the companions has done was out of their honesty, and i asked you to answer my original post i addressed to you, but it seems like you are disabled to answer it, like as you did with the legitimate marriage question. |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
|
I'll summarize that post so that you may find it easier:
1- Has the verse that mentioned two things to obey been obligated by other verses you brought to prove your claim? |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| 2- What does "the same cause and command" mean? |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| Can i understand from this statement that you believe in hadiths which don't opposite Quran?? |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| or don't believe on them at all? |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| 3- When you talked about how to pray, i asked you: So Quran doesn't contain everything??!!! |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| 4- I showed you that "Whoever obeys the messenger, then he has certainly obeyed Allah" |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| proves that there is an indirect obedience |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| and it can't mean "whoever follows Quran, he follows Quran" |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| 5-I told you that the Prophet(pbuh) forbade writing hadiths but he allowed it later, |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| you refuted this point by a very wrong claim which is that Muslims haven't written hadiths even when Muawyah became a caliph, |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| Who said Muawyah was a caliph in this indecent? :*) Muawyah was one of the companions(from the revelation writers as well), he didn't appear suddenly only when he became a caliph. |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| 6-You claimed that the companions refrained themselves from narrating hadiths, |
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| WittyBoy wrote: |
| Yes, they were very careful in narrating hadiths, but it doesn't mean they didn't narrate hadiths at all. |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
|
@ Ahmed
if you find all points are still unanswerable, |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| you can leave them all and answer the following question, |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| Allah said: |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| Prohibited to you (for marriage) are: your mothers, daughters, sisters; father's sisters, mother's sisters; brother's daughters, sister's daughters; foster-mothers (who gave you suck), foster-sisters; your wives' mothers; your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone, no prohibition if ye have not gone in; (those who have been) wives of your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past; for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. [an-Nisaa : 23] |
| WittyBoy wrote: |
| So, Is marriage from a woman and her mother's sister or father's sister at one and the same time, is lawful and legitimated too? |
| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
| Well if you dont refute it, which slams your repeated crap, then I will copy it and format it my style and shove it in your pinhead for you to refute, most of it is what I said anyway, but the author added more very strong points, so later today I will let that author slams a kafir and ex Mushrik hindu... |
| The Cat wrote: |
| I sure hope AB just do that... |
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| AhmedBahgat wrote: | ||||
|
Read above first ^^^^^^
مَّنْ يُطِعِ الرَّسُولَ فَقَدْ أَطَاعَ اللّهَ وَمَن تَوَلَّى فَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ عَلَيْهِمْ حَفِيظًا (80) Whoever obeys the messenger, then he has certainly obeyed Allah; and whoever turns away, then We have not sent you over them as a keeper. [Al Quran ; 4:80] If you obey the Messenger (NOT IF YOU OBEY MUHAMMAD), you have obeyed Allah, and if anyone disobeys (turns away), then it is not the messengers?????????????????????¢?? (in this case Muhammad) job to look after them (the disbelievers) or arrange their affairs. Which means that for those who obey Allah and His messenger (The Quran), the messenger will then have the responsibility of looking out for them or arranging their affairs. (4:80) very clearly shows that obeying Muhammad was the same as obeying Allah. This is because Muhammad ordered only what Allah ordered (In the Quran), this also shows that if Muhammad said something that was not from the Quran, then it would not be binding as it is not what Allah said and therefore would not fit (4:80). Some other indications of the fact that Obey Allah and obey the messenger, is referring to the word of Allah as spoken by the prophet are as follows: وَأَذَانٌ مِّنَ اللّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ إِلَى النَّاسِ يَوْمَ الْحَجِّ الأَكْبَرِ أَنَّ اللّهَ بَرِيءٌ مِّنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ وَرَسُولُهُ فَإِن تُبْتُمْ فَهُوَ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ وَإِن تَوَلَّيْتُمْ فَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّكُمْ غَيْرُ مُعْجِزِي اللّهِ وَبَشِّرِ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ بِعَذَابٍ أَلِيمٍ (3) And an announcement from Allah and His messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the polytheists, and so is His messenger. So if you repent, it will be good for you; and if you turn away, then know that you will not cause failure to Allah. And give tidings to those who have disbelieved of a painful torture. [Al Quran ; 9:3] Was this referring to two different announcements, one from the prophet and the other from Allah? No! Here lies the logic of saying Allah and His messenger, because even though it is the word of Allah, it is spoken by Muhammad and hence defined as his word too. So if you say obey Allah and not Muhammad, no one would obey the Quran, if you say obey Allah only all the time, then there would be ambiguity with respect to obeying the (Quranic) words when they came from Muhammad‟s mouth. (4:80) fits in with this perfectly. This is what Allah does, He reveals his message to a human who proclaims it, Allah has never spoken to towns and cities directly, it was always through a messenger, through the mouth of the messenger. Of note is the fact that we never read in the Quran words like "Obey Allah and obey Muhammad", there is something instructive in this, as it is not Muhammad the man that was to be obeyed, it was the messenger that was to be obeyed, this is to emphasise that what is to be obeyed is the "message" of God and not the words, ideas or views of the man Muhammad. So when you obey the messenger, you are of course obeying the message and hence Allah. Allah Decides and the messenger decides the same way, no separation in this: وَمَا كَانَ لِمُؤْمِنٍ وَلَا مُؤْمِنَةٍ إِذَا قَضَى اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ أَمْرًا أَنْ يَكُونَ لَهُمُ الْخِيَرَةُ مِنْ أَمْرِهِمْ ۗ وَمَنْ يَعْصِ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ فَقَدْ ضَلَّ ضَلَالًا مُبِينًا (36) And it is not for a believing man or for a believing woman, when Allah and His messenger have decided a matter, that they should have any choice about their matter. And whoever disobeys Allah and His messenger, he is certainly strayed into obvious misguidance. [Al Quran ; 33:36] It is obvious that Muhammad will decide whatever Allah decides, and hence there cannot be any separation in this regard (that is, that you would obey the decisions of Allah in the Quran, and separately obey the decisions of Muhammad even if they have no Quranic basis). The next verses clarify that it is only Allah who judges anything and not Muhammad. That is why Muhammad can make no judgement unless it is Allah‟s. Only Allah Judges: Say: Allah is most Knowing how long they remained. To Him belongs the unknown of the heavens and the earth. How Seeing is He and how Hearing. They do not have other than Him any guardian; and He does not associate with His judgment anyone.[Al Quran ; 18:26] Is it other than Allah I should seek a judge while it is He Who has sent down to you the book explained? And those whom We have given the book know that it is sent down by your Lord in truth, so never be among the doubters.[Al Quran ; 6:114] And so we see that there is no separation of Authority in the phrase ?????????????????????¢??Obey Allah and obey the messenger‟, it really just means, obey the word of Allah by obeying what is revealed through the prophet. Hence the 3rd possibility of absolutely obeying for all time what the prophet says as a result of what was revealed to him from Allah (As in when he judges by the Quran) is not to be accepted, as the prophet‟s individual judgement is not the judgement or word of Allah and hence cannot be described as Allah and the messenger‟s word/judgement (it is merely the judgement of a societal leader for his time and place, and not revelation and guidance for all humanity). This can only happen if it is first Allah‟s judgement (That is, if it is contained in the Quran). Because for example, Muhammad used his judgement in (9:43) عَفَا اللّهُ عَنكَ لِمَ أَذِنتَ لَهُمْ حَتَّى يَتَبَيَّنَ لَكَ الَّذِينَ صَدَقُواْ وَتَعْلَمَ الْكَاذِبِينَ (43) Allah has pardoned you when you permitted them (to remain behind) until it was made evident to you those who spoke the truth and you knew the liars. [Al Quran ; 9:43] And he was wrong, because it was not the judgement of Allah. Let us not forget that the Quran is full of Allah‟s judgements and answers to the kuffar and Muslims, recall: وَقَالَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لَوْلَا نُزِّلَ عَلَيْهِ الْقُرْآنُ جُمْلَةً وَاحِدَةً ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ لِنُثَبِّتَ بِهِ فُؤَادَكَ ۖ وَرَتَّلْنَاهُ تَرْتِيلًا (32) And those who have disbelieved say: Why was the Quran not sent down to him at once? Thus that We may strengthen thereby your heart; and We have recited it in (clear) reciting. [Al Quran ; 25:32] وَلَا يَأْتُونَكَ بِمَثَلٍ إِلَّا جِئْنَاكَ بِالْحَقِّ وَأَحْسَنَ تَفْسِيرًا (33) And they do not bring to you an example except that We brought to you the truth and best of explanation. [Al Quran ; 25:33]] يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ لاَ تَسْأَلُواْ عَنْ أَشْيَاء إِن تُبْدَ لَكُمْ تَسُؤْكُمْ وَإِن تَسْأَلُواْ عَنْهَا حِينَ يُنَزَّلُ الْقُرْآنُ تُبْدَ لَكُمْ عَفَا اللّهُ عَنْهَا وَاللّهُ غَفُورٌ حَلِيمٌ (101) O you who have believed! Do not ask about things which, if revealed to you, may trouble you. But if you ask about them when the Quran is sent down, it may be revealed to you. Allah has pardoned it, and Allah is Forgiving, Forbearing. [Al Quran ; 5:101] And so Muhammad would have answered his opponents directly with the Word of Allah. Recall all the places Allah says ?????????????????????¢??Say (Qul)‟ to the believers and unbelievers, and ?????????????????????¢??They say (Qalu/Qaal)‟ or they ask?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦ Consider the next verse: اتَّبِعُواْ مَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكُم مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ وَلاَ تَتَّبِعُواْ مِن دُونِهِ أَوْلِيَاء قَلِيلاً مَّا تَذَكَّرُونَ (3) Follow what has been sent down to you from your Lord and do not follow other than Him any guardians. Little do you remember. [Al Quran ; 7:3] This is general in scope, so we should not even take Muhammad/Messenger as a guardian other than Allah when it comes to guidance. This is the clear command of Allah to follow what has been revealed. Not what the prophet says, not what he does, but what is revealed. But to obey what the prophet says as a result of what was revealed to him from Allah (As in when he judges by the Quran) is in fact valid because of his societal role (as indicated in the Quran) apart from being the messenger. In conclusion, consider the following: قُلْ إِنْ أَدْرِي أَقَرِيبٌ مَا تُوعَدُونَ أَمْ يَجْعَلُ لَهُ رَبِّي أَمَدًا (25) Say: I do not know if what you are promised is near or if my Lord will make for it a long period. [Al Quran ; 72:25] عَالِمُ الْغَيْبِ فَلَا يُظْهِرُ عَلَىٰ غَيْبِهِ أَحَدًا (26) The Knower of the unseen, and He does not reveal His (knowledge of the) unseen to anyone. [Al Quran ; 72:26] إِلَّا مَنِ ارْتَضَىٰ مِنْ رَسُولٍ فَإِنَّهُ يَسْلُكُ مِنْ بَيْنِ يَدَيْهِ وَمِنْ خَلْفِهِ رَصَدًا (27) Except whom He has approved of any messenger; for indeed, He sends before him and behind him observers. [Al Quran ; 72:27] لِيَعْلَمَ أَنْ قَدْ أَبْلَغُوا رِسَالَاتِ رَبِّهِمْ وَأَحَاطَ بِمَا لَدَيْهِمْ وَأَحْصَىٰ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ عَدَدًا (2 
So He makes evident that they have delivered the messages of their Lord, and He has encompassed what is with them and has enumerated everything in numbers. [Al Quran ; 72:28] Consider this, Allah has told us that the Quran is detailed, clear and complete for our guidance, what sense does it then make to say that Allah is telling us to follow more/separate guidance from Muhammad? Consider: And is it not sufficient for them that We have sent down upon you the book which is recited to them? Indeed, in that is a mercy and a reminder for a people who believe.[Al Quran ; 29:51] Even from this point of view, in order for the Quran to be without contradiction, ?????????????????????¢??obey Allah and the messenger‟ cannot mean to obey two separate sources for guidance. --------------------- Ahmed says: This is indeed another Grandmother of all slams exposing the filthy Mushrikoon from among the Muslims who idol worship Muhammed by making him a partner to Allah in creating religious laws for them based on each?????????????????????¢??s wisdom, then they obey both together. What current Mushriks like Mushrik Boy WittyBoy allege about obeying Allah and Muhammed is nothing new, they are only parroting what their masters and associates parroted since they invented the hadith. Yet they have no shame when you confront them with the clear cut impossibility of half stoning the married adulterers who were ex-slaves. See this crap from the man made book of Bukhri Springer hadith: The allegation is listed under a sub-chapter that is titled: What was talked about concerning the hadith by one narrator only (UHADI). What they are trying to say, is simply providing some apologies to why we should uphold the some of the UHADI hadith (a hadith with only one narrator, like the hadith by Abu Hurairah prohibiting marrying a woman one of her unties at the same time). Let?????????????????????¢??s look at this different allegation by Abu Hurairah: http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display.asp?hnum=6718&doc=0
The doubtful Abu Hurairah alleged: While we were sitting with the prophet, a man from among the Bedouin stood up and said: Judge between us by the book of Allah. So his opponent said to the prophet: Judge for him by the book of Allah, and if you may permit me to speak. The prophet said to him: Speak. So the opponent said: My son who was working for him (the Bedouin), committed adultery with his wife (the wife of the Bedouin), so I was told that my son should be stoned, but I ransomed him with 100 sheep and a newly born one, then I asked those with knowledge and they informed me that I have to lash my son 100 lashes and expel him from the land for one year. So the messenger of Allah said: By Whom Who controls my soul, I will judge between you by the book of Allah, as for the sheep and the newly born one, they should be returned to you, and as for your son, he should be lashed 100 lashes and be expelled from the land for a year. And as for you Anis to go to the wife of Bedouin, and if she confesses then stone her. Anis went to her and she confessed and he stoned her. End of hadith What is funny but consistent with these man made rubbish books of hadith that when they want to enforce and man made law, they repeat the same incident numerous times which must result in numerous and contradicting accounts, the above allegation for example was repeated through any of the following variables: - The two men were, a Bedouin and another anonymous man - The two men were anonymous men - The two men went to the prophet to seek his judgment - The two men were sitting with the prophet and one stood up to seek his judgment - The adulterer was the son of Bedouin - The adulterer was the son of other anonymous man - The adulteress was the wife of Bedouin - The adulteress was the wife of other anonymous man - The ransom was 100 sheep and a newly born one - The ransom was 100 sheep and a female slave - The ransom was 100 sheep and a male slave - The confession of the adulteress was not required - The confession of the adulteress was required - They went to the adulteress and stoned her - They brought the adulteress to them and stoned her Well, the spin did not stop there, they tried to elaborate on the above crap in their other man made Bukhari based book Fath al-Bari, so they said:
Apparently when they elaborated about the above crap of hadith, they did not care about the main subject in hand: Should we stone the adulterers under the Islamic sharia or not? What they cared about is to convince the wannabe hadith worshippers that if a hadith is narrated by one person only, then that is not a strong ground to dismiss the hadith, please be aware that most Abu Hurairah hadith were only narrated by one narrator who was him, i.e. they are indirectly defending the hadith of the always doubtful Abu Hurairah. So here are parts of what they said above: Ibn Al-Qayem said in his refute against those who reject a hadith by one narrator when it states anything that is not found in the Quran: Sunnah and Quran go together like this: A- Sunnah may agree perfectly with the Quran. B- Sunnah may explain something in the Quran C- Sunnah may state a law that the Quran did not mention As for the last one above (Sunnah may state a law that the Quran never mentioned), the law must start by the prophet alone so that he is obeyed. That is because if obeying the prophet in only the Quran, then there would not be a SPECIAL OBEDIENCE for him alone, and Allah has said in the Quran: Whoever obeys the messenger, then such one has obeyed Allah. (Ahmed says: And that is exactly what filthy Mushrik Boy has parroted to us, they continued to say:) As for those who does not accept the laws that were alleged to be invented by Muhammed in addition to the Quran, unless it is a popular and widely known laws by the prophet, they would have contradicted themselves because we also know from the UHADI hadith all the following laws which are not found in the Quran: - Prohibiting marrying both a woman and her aunty together - Prohibiting marrying from those with whom they suckled - Inheritance of grandmother - Prohibiting women with periods from fasting and praying - Laws concerning those who have sex with their wives while fasting - Allowing Wudo with wine that is made from dates - Cutting the leg of a re-offending thief - Giving a share of 1/6 to the daughter of any deceased man, with her aunty . . - And many more which needs a lot of explanation, but all the above laws came from hadith that were alleged by one person only, some of it are conclusive and others are doubtful, but they divided them into 3 categories, and they had their reasons to do so which again needs a lot of explanation going through the principles of Fiqh (understanding the religion) End of Fath al-Bary?????????????????????¢??s elaboration Well, what a silly apology, if we are going to talk about laws for things that the Quran never talked about, then we have far more than the man made laws invented in their man made books of UHADI hadith, what we should do then? I honestly believe that such laws are not needed, and even some of it can be worked out using the Quran alone, for example the law of prohibiting a woman who has her period from fasting and praying, this law can be worked out from the Quran as follow: 1) Allah commands us to pray while we are physically pure, that is why He commanded us to do Wudo in advance, also Allah told us that the periods make women unclean, therefore they cannot pray while they have their periods. 2) Allah gave exception from fasting to those who are sick as long as they do it later while they are not sick, and because the periods most likely make the women sick, then they may not fast while they have their periods, then do the days they missed later on when they do not have their periods. The point is this, those hadith worshippers do not want to ponder upon the Quran, they only want to ponder upon their man made hadith while indulging themselves in clear cut shirk, and while being proud of it too, this was clear from the above elaboration when they said that there should be a special obedience for the prophet alone, this when they brought in a sentence from the Quran telling us: Whoever obeys the messenger, then such one has obeyed Allah, let me bring this Quran verse in here: مَّنْ يُطِعِ الرَّسُولَ فَقَدْ أَطَاعَ اللّهَ وَمَن تَوَلَّى فَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ عَلَيْهِمْ حَفِيظًا (80) Whoever obeys the messenger, then he indeed obeyed Allah, and whoever turned back, then We have not sent you over them as a keeper. [Al Quran ; 4:80] -> Well, someone like me is still obeying the prophet, even if I only take some of the conjectures from their man made hadith books that are qualified by the Quran while rejecting all other conjectures that are contradicting the Quran, I still pray and fast like the prophet, I also adore and respect the Quran that he delivered. How come I cannot be? At least this way, I cannot be exposed to a possible shirk; at least this way I am far safer than those who want to obey allegations about Muhammed for the sake of a special and exclusive obedient to him next to their obedience to Allah. Indeed, it sounds like clear cut shirk to me, and I will never go such way, and never been alhamdulellah. See, the message of the above verse does not mean that you have to obey both in different and contradicting matters, it makes no sense, rather if you obey Muhammed in all the things that are confirmed by Allah, then you should be considered as obeying Allah as well, no question about it. But for the hadith worshippers, it goes like this: - Allah ordains some laws - Muhammed ordains other different laws, even ones that were already settled by Allah - They should obey both It virtually sounds like they consider Muhammed as another human god who has the same power that the real divine God has. It seems that those hadith worshippers did not read the next two verses after 4:80, so let me bring them in here: وَيَقُولُونَ طَاعَةٌ فَإِذَا بَرَزُواْ مِنْ عِندِكَ بَيَّتَ طَآئِفَةٌ مِّنْهُمْ غَيْرَ الَّذِي تَقُولُ وَاللّهُ يَكْتُبُ مَا يُبَيِّتُونَ فَأَعْرِضْ عَنْهُمْ وَتَوَكَّلْ عَلَى اللّهِ وَكَفَى بِاللّهِ وَكِيلاً (81) And they say: Obedience. But when they leave from your presence, a party of them spend the night changing what you say; and Allah records what they change at night, so turn aside from them and trust in Allah, and it is enough that Allah is Trustee. [Al Quran ; 4:81] -> Wow, the above verse is like virtually talking about those hadith worshippers, remember when Ahmed Ibn Hanbal recorded in his man made hadith books 6 times that the prophet commanded the people not write anything he says but the Quran, as well Ibn Magih told us that the prophet told the people not to talk too much about him, but we know that most of the people turned back, i.e. they started to write anything the prophet says, as well talk like mad about him for 1200 years and we are still counting, 4:81 seems like describing so (indirectly): وَيَقُولُونَ طَاعَةٌ فَإِذَا بَرَزُواْ مِنْ عِندِكَ بَيَّتَ طَآئِفَةٌ مِّنْهُمْ غَيْرَ الَّذِي تَقُولُ , i.e. And they say: Obedience. But when they leave from your presence, a party of them spend the night changing what you say; That is why such people cannot be obeying Allah because they were not obeying what Muhammed commanded them; in fact they were even changing what Muhammed was telling them. We have also seen clearly so many contradictions and discrepancies in all the above hadith about stoning, yet those hadith worshippers chose to ponder upon it then spread it between them, while never ponder upon what was sent to them from Allah (the Quran), see the next verse: أَفَلاَ يَتَدَبَّرُونَ الْقُرْآنَ وَلَوْ كَانَ مِنْ عِندِ غَيْرِ اللّهِ لَوَجَدُواْ فِيهِ اخْتِلاَفًا كَثِيرًا (82) Do they not ponder upon the Quran? And if it had been from anyone other than Allah, they would have found in it many discrepancy. [Al Quran ; 4:82] -> Certainly the above verse should put these man made books of rubbish hadith to shame, in the chapter about stoning, there are zillions of discrepancies. These man made books have to have all these masses of contradictions it has to be, because such they are not from Allah. This is how it beautifully and indirectly described: وَلَوْ كَانَ مِنْ عِندِ غَيْرِ اللّهِ لَوَجَدُواْ فِيهِ اخْتِلاَفًا كَثِيرًا , i.e. And if it had been from anyone other than Allah, they would have found in it many discrepancy. Here you have it AGAIN, Mushrikoon and kafirs from among the hadith worshippers; another Grandmother of all slams. See this:
And I have a another surprise for al Mushrikoon and kafirs from among the hadith worshipers, enjoy: Another surprise, anothet surprise Salam |
| Quote: |
| This is how it beautifully and indirectly described: وَلَوْ كَانَ مِنْ عِندِ غَيْرِ اللّهِ لَوَجَدُواْ فِيهِ اخْتِلاَفًا كَثِيرًا , i.e. And if it had been from anyone other than Allah, they would have found in it many discrepancy. |
Most likely this will go way above their heads.
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| AhmedBahgat wrote: | ||||
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Salam all
Al-Mushrikoon from among the hadith worshipping Muslims and their fellow hadith worshipping kafirs allege to us that because of the following verse: لَقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِي رَسُولِ اللَّهِ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِمَنْ كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الْآخِرَ وَذَكَرَ اللَّهَ كَثِيرًا (21) There has certainly been for you a good example in the messenger of Allah for whoever desires Allah and the last day and remembers Allah often. [Al Quran ; 33:21] That we must shirk the man made rubbish books of hadith with Quran as being two sources of guidance. 1- The guidance of Allah in Quran 2- The guidance of Muhammed in the man made rubbish books of hadith A clear cut case of shirk, this is because we only have one guidance, see these verses: وَلاَ تُؤْمِنُواْ إِلاَّ لِمَن تَبِعَ دِينَكُمْ قُلْ إِنَّ الْهُدَى هُدَى اللّهِ أَن يُؤْتَى أَحَدٌ مِّثْلَ مَا أُوتِيتُمْ أَوْ يُحَآجُّوكُمْ عِندَ رَبِّكُمْ قُلْ إِنَّ الْفَضْلَ بِيَدِ اللّهِ يُؤْتِيهِ مَن يَشَاء وَاللّهُ وَاسِعٌ عَلِيمٌ (73) And do not believe except to those who follow your religion. Say: Indeed, the guidance is the guidance of Allah. Lest someone be given like what you were given; or they would argue with you before your Lord. Say: Indeed, the grace is in the hand of Allah, He gives it to whom He wills; and Allah is Vast, Knowing. [Al Quran ; 3:73] -> See, it is only one guidance, not two as the Mushrikoon desire: Say: Indeed, the guidance is the guidance of Allah. Not the guidance of Allah and the guidance of Muhammed. قُلْ أَنَدْعُو مِن دُونِ اللّهِ مَا لاَ يَنفَعُنَا وَلاَ يَضُرُّنَا وَنُرَدُّ عَلَى أَعْقَابِنَا بَعْدَ إِذْ هَدَانَا اللّهُ كَالَّذِي اسْتَهْوَتْهُ الشَّيَاطِينُ فِي الأَرْضِ حَيْرَانَ لَهُ أَصْحَابٌ يَدْعُونَهُ إِلَى الْهُدَى ائْتِنَا قُلْ إِنَّ هُدَى اللّهِ هُوَ الْهُدَىَ وَأُمِرْنَا لِنُسْلِمَ لِرَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ (71) Say: Shall we call upon other than Allah those which do not benefit us nor harm us and be returned back on our heels after Allah has guided us? It is like one whom the devils have enticed in the land wandering; he has companions who call him to guidance, (saying): Come to us. Say: Indeed, the guidance of Allah is the guidance, and we are commanded to submit to the Lord of the worlds. [Al Quran ; 6:71] -> See again: Say: Indeed, the guidance of Allah is the guidance Not the guidance of Allah and the guidance of Muhammed. Not to forget this verse shown earlier: إِنَّكَ لَا تَهْدِي مَنْ أَحْبَبْتَ وَلَٰكِنَّ اللَّهَ يَهْدِي مَنْ يَشَاءُ ۚ وَهُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِالْمُهْتَدِينَ (56) You do not guide those whom you love, but Allah guides whom He wills, and He is most Knowing those who are guided. [Al Quran ; 28:56] Therefore it is only one guidance which is the guidance of Allah, I.e. the guidance sent with the messenger of Allah. Not the guidance of Muhammed the man. The above conclusive fact is enough to slam dunk all those filthy Mushrikoon and their fellow Kafirs who are united in worshipping the man made rubbish books of hadith as a source of guidance. The main argument of those filthy Mushrikoon is simply this: They say that to take Muhammed as a good example, we have only the man made books of rubbish hadith to follow such example. The following fact remains intact: Ibrahim and those who believed with him are also good examples to the believers as seen below: قَدْ كَانَتْ لَكُمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ إِذْ قَالُوا لِقَوْمِهِمْ إِنَّا بُرَآءُ مِنْكُمْ وَمِمَّا تَعْبُدُونَ مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ كَفَرْنَا بِكُمْ وَبَدَا بَيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَكُمُ الْعَدَاوَةُ وَالْبَغْضَاءُ أَبَدًا حَتَّىٰ تُؤْمِنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَحْدَهُ إِلَّا قَوْلَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ لِأَبِيهِ لَأَسْتَغْفِرَنَّ لَكَ وَمَا أَمْلِكُ لَكَ مِنَ اللَّهِ مِنْ شَيْءٍ ۖ رَبَّنَا عَلَيْكَ تَوَكَّلْنَا وَإِلَيْكَ أَنَبْنَا وَإِلَيْكَ الْمَصِيرُ (4) There has certainly been for you a good example in Ibrahim and those with him, when they said to their people: Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from what you worship other than Allah. We have denied you, and there have appeared between us and you enmity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone, except for the saying of Ibrahim to his father: I will surely seek forgiveness for you, but I do not possess for you against Allah anything. Our Lord! Upon You we have relied, and to You we have turned, and to You is the destination. [Al Quran ; 60:4] رَبَّنَا لَا تَجْعَلْنَا فِتْنَةً لِلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا رَبَّنَا ۖ إِنَّكَ أَنْتَ الْعَزِيزُ الْحَكِيمُ (5) Our Lord! Do not make us a torment for those who have disbelieved and forgive us, our Lord. Indeed, You are the Mighty, the Wise. [Al Quran ; 60:5] لَقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِيهِمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِمَنْ كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الْآخِرَ ۚ وَمَنْ يَتَوَلَّ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ الْغَنِيُّ الْحَمِيدُ (6) There has certainly been for you in them a good example, for one who desires Allah and the last day; and whoever turns away, then indeed, Allah is the Rich, the Praised. [Al Quran ; 60:6] But we don?????????????????????¢??t have man made rubbish books of hadith about Ibrahim so we can take him as good example as commanded by Allah in the verses above. For the filthy Mushrikoon who abandoned the Quran, we can only know about those good examples through their man made rubbish books of hadith. Opps, we have man made rubbish hadith in Bukhari and Muslim telling us about prophet Ibrahim as an example, unfortunately though, it is not a GOOD EXAMPLE, rather a very bad example of a serial liar. Let?????????????????????¢??s see shall we: source
In simple words, Bukhari is telling us that Abu Hurairah alleged that Ibrahim lied three times. As if this freak Abu Hurairah never lied to us and concealed a great part of hadith from us as he admitted in Bukhari. Muslim too followed the path of his teacher Bukhari and decided to tell us that Ibrahim was a bad example of a serial lying prophet; see: source
Same crap that Ibrahim was a serial liar; what is funny, in one of the alleged lies by Ibrahim, they alleged: Ibrahim told his wife Sarah that she he will say to the tyrant king that she is his sister and not his wife, because if he knows that she is his wife he will take her for him (to fuk her I guess). How fukin funny, as if the tyrant king was a decent man, that is if Sarah was the sister of Ibrahim, he would have restrained himself from taking her (to fuk her I guess). The other two alleged lies are equally non sensible likewise the alleged first lie, they actually used Quran verse 37:89 when Ibrahim said that he is sick, of course he was mentally sick and tired due to the shirk of his father and his people, it does not have to mean that he was physically ill. The second alleged lie is about verse 21:63 in which Ibrahim replied to his people after they asked him if he had done so to their man made gods, by saying: 21:63 He said: Rather, the chief of them has done it, therefore ask them, if they can speak. The idiot Mushrikoon cannot understand the simple logic that Ibrahim was not lying, rather replying by making a strong and irrefutable point against his Mushrik people, it is like Ibrahim said the following exactly: Why not the chief of these statues had done it? Why not ask them, if they can speak? The point was clearly made in the same verse that those dumb Mushrik Muslims who abandoned the Quran could not understand, here it is from the verse: therefore ask them, if they can speak. Ibrahim never denied the accusation as the filthy misguided Mushrikoon alleged. See the whole story: قَالُوا أَأَنْتَ فَعَلْتَ هَٰذَا بِآلِهَتِنَا يَا إِبْرَاهِيمُ (62) They said: Have you done this to our gods, O Ibrahim? [Al Quran ; 21:62] قَالَ بَلْ فَعَلَهُ كَبِيرُهُمْ هَٰذَا فَاسْأَلُوهُمْ إِنْ كَانُوا يَنْطِقُونَ (63) He said: Rather, this largest of them did it, so ask them if they could speak. [Al Quran ; 21:63] فَرَجَعُوا إِلَىٰ أَنْفُسِهِمْ فَقَالُوا إِنَّكُمْ أَنْتُمُ الظَّالِمُونَ (64) Then they returned to themselves and said: Indeed, you are the unjust. [Al Quran ; 21:64] ثُمَّ نُكِسُوا عَلَىٰ رُءُوسِهِمْ لَقَدْ عَلِمْتَ مَا هَٰؤُلَاءِ يَنْطِقُونَ (65) Then they turned to themselves (saying): You have certainly known that these do not speak. [Al Quran ; 21:65] قَالَ أَفَتَعْبُدُونَ مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ مَا لَا يَنْفَعُكُمْ شَيْئًا وَلَا يَضُرُّكُمْ (66) He said: So do you worship other than Allah that which does not benefit you in anything or harm you? [Al Quran ; 21:66] أُفٍّ لَكُمْ وَلِمَا تَعْبُدُونَ مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ ۖ أَفَلَا تَعْقِلُونَ (67) Uff to you and to what you worship other than Allah, so will you not understand? [Al Quran ; 21:67] قَالُوا حَرِّقُوهُ وَانْصُرُوا آلِهَتَكُمْ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ فَاعِلِينَ (6
They said: Burn him and support your gods, if you should be doing (something). [Al Quran ; 21:68] -> If Ibrahim was lying trying to save himself, then he would have never told them next: So do you worship other than Allah that which does not benefit you in anything or harm you? Uff to you and to what you worship other than Allah, so will you not understand? And that is why they tried to punish him with the worst punishment, to burn him alive: They said: Burn him and support your gods, if you should be doing (something). Certainly the crap found in the man made books of rubbish hadith about Ibrahim showing him as liar and coward who could not even stand up to protect his wife is nothing but clear cut lies that cannot be of any good example to us. Likewise about Muhammed, these man made evil hadith books are not showing him of a good example, rather a sexual filthy freak who only cared about fuking women all day long and while not even having time to shower himself between the fuks. How shameless and confused those filthy Mushrikoon are. It seems that they don?????????????????????¢??t read the word ?????????????????????¢??GOOD?????????????????????¢?? before the word ?????????????????????¢??EXAMPLE?????????????????????¢?? in verse 33:21 that they are using to justify their nature of idol worshipping Muhammed. And that is what I told you earlier, they don?????????????????????¢??t even understand the verse they are using to justify their shirk, in fact they don?????????????????????¢??t also understand the simple fact that Ibrahim is mentioned in Quran more than 62 times, i.e. we have a truthful hadith about Ibrahim that believers can take for granted as good examples about Ibrahim, likewise Muhammed the messenger and the prophet, his good example is detailed in Quran, this will be another slam dunk with which I will hit al Mushrikoon soon inshaallah. Salam |
| Quote: |
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On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said:
"When Allah decreed the Creation He pledged Himself by writing in His book which is laid down with Him: 'My mercy prevails over my wrath.'" [Muslim (also by al-Bukhari, an-Nasa'i and Ibn Majah)] |
| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
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Salam bro BMZ
Your quoted all three sentences right mate, and I agree with you, why we need this hadith while Allah already told us so in Quran that His mercy may encompass everything Cheers |
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Arabic and English Narration of Hadith Qudsi 11
عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ: " قَالَ اللَّهُ: أَنْفِقْ يَا ابْنَ آدَمَ، أُنْفِقْ عَلَيْكَ ". On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), who said: "Allah (mighty and sublime be He) said: 'Spend (on charity), O son of Adam, and I shall spend on you.'" [Bukhari (also by Muslim).] |
| AhmedBahgat wrote: |
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No mate, I just waked up, I slept early last night
I am very sick mate, got a strong bout of flu, it is really hard Cheers |
| AhmedBahgat wrote: | ||
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Salam all
In simple words, Bukhari is telling us that Abu Hurairah alleged that Ibrahim lied three times. As if this freak Abu Hurairah never lied to us and concealed a great part of hadith from us as he admitted in Bukhari. Muslim too followed the path of his teacher Bukhari and decided to tell us that Ibrahim was a bad example of a serial lying prophet; see: source
Same crap that Ibrahim was a serial liar; what is funny, in one of the alleged lies by Ibrahim, they alleged: Salam |
| mmKhan wrote: |
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I am new here and I am happy to be here Alhamdulillah. Brother Ahmed, hope you are in good health now by Allah's grace, inshaAllah.
Brother, you missed a beautiful aayat on this. 19:41 واذكر في الكتب إبرهيم إنه كان صديقا نبيا 19:41 And recall Ibrahim in the Book; he was a man of truth, a prophet. May Allah guide us all to His true path Mohammed |
| mmKhan wrote: | ||||
Salaam all,
I am new here and I am happy to be here Alhamdulillah. Brother Ahmed, hope you are in good health now by Allah's grace, inshaAllah. Brother, you missed a beautiful aayat on this. 19:41 واذكر في الكتب إبرهيم إنه كان صديقا نبيا 19:41 And recall Ibrahim in the Book; he was a man of truth, a prophet. May Allah guide us all to His true path Mohammed |