Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject: Lobster on free-minds is exposed again
Lobster wrote:
there's no such things as "angels" and the quran never mentions such creatures, no matter how cute and happy they may seem. And Yusha, the quran says we must lower our wings to our parents, does that mean we have wings too? Or maybe, just maybe, "wings" is being used metaphorically there?
I have never seen angels. I have never seen anyone live for 950 years. I've never seen a sea split into two, or a stick turn into a snake. I haven't, and no one who has ever lived over the past few millenia has ever seen anything like it.
And I've read a lot of history books, and all the people in them have LAST NAMES. Why do Adam, Abraham, Noah, Imran, Jacob, Jesus all have just one name?
Hello all
Again an ignorant trying hard to mislead young Muslims with non sense and lies, see what he said above the quran says we must lower our wings to our parents,, now I will prove to you that The Quran never said so, this means whoever said the above is a clear cut ignorant and what he says should only resides in the rubbish bin
Now we know that in any language there are different meaning words that have the same bloody identical letters, this does not made the two words one, or a meaning of one can be swapped with the other within any context, this is ridiculous, I agree it will be harder to know what the word means if we have identical letter words, but this confusion will only occur if you study the word on its own after stripping it from its sentence, only ignorant do that and it applies on any language for sure, not just Arabic, let me prove my point with the word Janah
The word can mean many things:
1) Sort of a location or a place, like A HOSPITAL WING, in fact we the Arabs use the same word Janah to refer to a hospital wing a Place , in this case its use is mostly in singular format, unless we are talking about many hospital wings at the same time but as far as I know it is very rare even in the English language, therefore you will find its use in such context most (if not all) the times in a singular format, this is what the verse you brought in means metaphorically "a place of respect and kindness" and many other verses indeed mean the same, it means an area of as far as the context goes, let's look at a few verses that gives us that context which is the only one to control the meaning of the identical letters words as I explained earlier:
Move thy hand into thy bosom, and it will come forth white without stain (or harm), and draw thy hand close to thy side (to guard) against fear. Those are the two credentials from thy Lord to Pharaoh and his Chiefs: for truly they are a people rebellious and wicked. [The Quran ; 28:32]
اسْلُكْ يَدَكَ فِي جَيْبِكَ تَخْرُجْ بَيْضَاء مِنْ غَيْرِ سُوءٍ وَاضْمُمْ إِلَيْكَ جَنَاحَكَ مِنَ الرَّهْبِ فَذَانِكَ بُرْهَانَانِ مِن رَّبِّكَ إِلَى فِرْعَوْنَ وَمَلَئِهِ إِنَّهُمْ كَانُوا قَوْمًا فَاسِقِينَ (32)
-> See, the word Janah in here is referring to a place : draw thy hand close to thy side , it is also worth noting that the word is singular, therefore it can't mean the literal wing, because we need bloody two wings at least to fly. Remember what the ignorant said about the Quran, the quran says we must lower our wings to our parents,, see, he said WINGS, a plural while when it is used as a metaphor it has to be singular as we have see above in 28:32, we will also see that in regard to the parents verse he still got totally wrong.
-> Can I ask everyone a question?, how many wings the Boeing 747 has?, hmmm please don't say two, because it also has another two at the back, i.e. it has 4 wings to fly, the bottom line is, simply you need TWO WINGS at least to physically fly
In the following example I will bring the 3 most popular translations:
YUSUFALI: And lower thy wing to the Believers who follow thee.
PICKTHAL: And lower thy wing (in kindness) unto those believers who follow thee.
SHAKIR: And be kind to him who follows you of the believers. [The Quran ; 26:215]
وَاخْفِضْ جَنَاحَكَ لِمَنِ اتَّبَعَكَ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ (215)
-> Again in the above verse the word Janah must be referring to a place or an area, like the top part of the body, the torso being lowered, it is only a metaphor to show respect and kindness, it can't mean the literal wing that is used for flying because we need at least TWO WINGS to physically fly, the word Janah here is singular as you can see, so from the above 3 translations, I will throw Yusuf Ali and Pickthal ones in the rubbish bin and will uphold Shakir's one because he understood the context perfectly. Please remember what mister lobster said about the Quran: , the quran says we must lower our wings to our parents,, see, he said WINGS, a plural while when it is used as a metaphor it has to be singular as we have see above in 26:215, sounds like we have another fallacy that is common on FM web site, the fallacy is simply considering the plural as simular, sort of like the Tutty Fruity fallacy (considering apples identical to mangos) that is very popular of FFI web site, I must make up a name for the FM fallacy of considering singular words as plural, what you guys think of a name?, hmmm, how about the Sin-Plural fallacy?, looks good to me
An identical example to the above is below:
YUSUFALI: Strain not thine eyes. (Wistfully) at what We have bestowed on certain classes of them, nor grieve over them: but lower thy wing (in gentleness) to the believers.
PICKTHAL: Strain not thine eyes toward that which We cause some wedded pairs among them to enjoin, and be not grieved on their account, and lower thy wing (in tenderness) for the believers.
SHAKIR: Do not strain your eyes after what We have given certain classes of them to enjoy, and do not grieve for them, and make yourself gentle to the believers. [The Quran ; 15:88]
لاَ تَمُدَّنَّ عَيْنَيْكَ إِلَى مَا مَتَّعْنَا بِهِ أَزْوَاجًا مِّنْهُمْ وَلاَ تَحْزَنْ عَلَيْهِمْ وَاخْفِضْ جَنَاحَكَ لِلْمُؤْمِنِينَ (88)
-> See how we have to throw Yusuf Ali and Pickthal translations in the rubbish bin and will uphold Shakir's one, the word Janah is again singular,
Hey everyone can an airplane fly with one wing?, Remember what the ignorant said about the Quran, the quran says we must lower our wings to our parents,, see, he said WINGS, a plural while when it is used as a metaphor it has to be singular as we have see above in 15:88, again we will also see that in regard to the parents verse he still got totally wrong.
Another identical example is this:
YUSUFALI: "Now draw thy hand close to thy side: It shall come forth white (and shining), without harm (or stain),- as another Sign,-
PICKTHAL: And thrust thy hand within thine armpit, it will come forth white without hurt. (That will be) another token.
SHAKIR: And press your hand to your side, it shall come out white without evil: another sign: [The Quran ; 20:22]
وَاضْمُمْ يَدَكَ إِلَى جَنَاحِكَ تَخْرُجْ بَيْضَاء مِنْ غَيْرِ سُوءٍ آيَةً أُخْرَى (22)
-> What is not identical though is why the hell Yusuf Ali and Pickthal didn't translate the singular word Janah as "wing" as they did in all the previous verses? , it seems they sensed that many Muslims will throw their silly translation for the other two verses in the rubbish bin I guess. But again can you see that the word is singular, i.e. a metaphor to indicate a place. Remember what the ignorant said about the Quran, the quran says we must lower our wings to our parents,, see, he said WINGS, a plural while when it is used as a metaphor it has to be singular as we have see above in 20:22, we will definitely see that in regard to the parents verse he still got totally wrong.
Let's look at an example where the word Janah MUST mean wings to fly with, we should expect it not to be singular the least:
There is not an animal in the earth, nor a flying creature flying on two wings, but they are peoples like unto you. We have neglected nothing in the Book (of Our decrees). Then unto their Lord they will be gathered.
-> See, the word Janah is dual بِجَنَاحَيْهِ, Bi Janahaihi haha, so it can mean the literal meaning of wings because we need two wings at least to fl, anmd the verse is telling us about BIRDS THAT FLY: nor a flying creature flying on two wings,, وَلاَ طَائِرٍ يَطِيرُ بِجَنَاحَيْهِ, but mister ignorant wants it to be plural when it is used as a metaphor, so he has to manipulate his flawed translation to successfully mislead the misinformed young Muslims, remember what he said: the quran says we must lower our wings to our parents,, while we expect now that it has to be singular because it is a metaphor, we will see later if mister manipulator is truthful or not regarding his use of the word WINGS in the parents verse.
Now let's look at a new meaning for the word Janah with a dummah on the first letter pronounced "Jonah" that was used 24 times in the Quran to express a totally different meaning, this will make it by far the common meaning of the word Janah:
It is no sin in you that you enter uninhabited houses wherein you have your necessaries; and Allah knows what you do openly and what you hide. [The Quran ; 24:29]
لَّيْسَ عَلَيْكُمْ جُنَاحٌ أَن تَدْخُلُوا بُيُوتًا غَيْرَ مَسْكُونَةٍ فِيهَا مَتَاعٌ لَّكُمْ وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ مَا تُبْدُونَ وَمَا تَكْتُمُونَ (29)
-> 24 times the word was used to mean a sin, therefore this is a clear evidence that the word can mean many things, what worth noting is this, when it is used to express a place or an area of something or a sin it always said in SINGULAR form as seen above, while for the literal meaning of flying it has to be at least DUAL as we have seen in 6:38, this is confirmed when we look at the verse describing the angels wings:
Praise be to Allah, Who created (out of nothing) the heavens and the earth, Who made the angels, messengers with wings,- two, or three, or four: He adds to Creation as He pleases: for Allah has power over all things. [The Quran ; 35:1]
الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ فَاطِرِ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ جَاعِلِ الْمَلَائِكَةِ رُسُلًا أُولِي أَجْنِحَةٍ مَّثْنَى وَثُلَاثَ وَرُبَاعَ يَزِيدُ فِي الْخَلْقِ مَا يَشَاء إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ (1)
-> Subhan Allah, this verse should demolish the silly argument presented by many Arabic language ignorant on this web site, firstly when Allah described the angels He stated that they have أَجْنِحَةٍ, AjnihaWINGS, in plural:, جَاعِلِ الْمَلَائِكَةِ رُسُلًا أُولِي أَجْنِحَةٍ i.e. Who made the angels, messengers with wings,, secondly, He even stated the number of those wings STARTING WITH THE NUMBER TWO: two, or three, or four, مَّثْنَى وَثُلَاثَ وَرُبَاعَ, see, you need at least two wings to fly, that is why the angles must be a flying creature.
Now let me ask you all, if Janah in 35:1 means something else but wings, sort of a metaphor of power, kindness, respect etc etc, why the hell you need 2, or 3 or 4 powers, kindness, respects, etcs etcs?, this is funny.
Finally here the same word Janah expressed as a verb and clearly it means heading to a direction or inclining to, it can't mean to fly:
And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing. [The Quran ; 8:61]
وَإِن جَنَحُواْ لِلسَّلْمِ فَاجْنَحْ لَهَا وَتَوَكَّلْ عَلَى اللّهِ إِنَّهُ هُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ (61)
Now let's look at the parents verse and we should see clearly how he got it wrong:
YUSUFALI: And, out of kindness, lower to them the wing of humility, and say: My Lord! bestow on them thy Mercy even as they cherished me in childhood.
PICKTHAL: And lower unto them the wing of submission through mercy, and say: My Lord! Have mercy on them both as they did care for me when I was little.
SHAKIR: And make yourself submissively gentle to them with compassion, and say: O my Lord! have compassion on them, as they brought me up (when I was) little. [The Quran ; 17:24]
وَاخْفِضْ لَهُمَا جَنَاحَ الذُّلِّ مِنَ الرَّحْمَةِ وَقُل رَّبِّ ارْحَمْهُمَا كَمَا رَبَّيَانِي صَغِيرًا (24)
-> There is no doubt that the word Janah can't mean wings of flying in this verse, can you guess why?, well simply because it is singular جَنَاحَ, Janah, WING, remember what the ignorant said: the quran says we must lower our wings to our parents,, he made it plural, looks like the Sin-Plural fallacy, but that was not his only mistake, he also claimed the wings mentioned are OUR WINGS, i.e. The Human Wings but the verse never said OUR WINGS, it said, جَنَاحَ الذُّلِّ , Janah Al Zul, i.e. literally The Wing of Al Zul not the wing of a human as mister ignorant claimed, so it has to mean something else, clearly the most accurate translation must be SHAKIR, because he is smart enough to come up with a translation that does not confuse his non Arabic speaking Muslim brothers and sisters And make yourself submissively gentle to them with compassion
There you have it, what should be noted that the above is an extract from a reply I made a few months back on my web site to the same person who is a member on my web site, yet he continues to promote his non sense and ridiculous claims against our religion, this does not mean he is an ignorant any more, he only insist to stay ignorant, his ignorance was exposed and cleared yet he insists on it, this means he is an enemy to our religion and his claims must be fought an exposed by any sincere Muslim, I have created a module on my web site to expose the shameless that I meet on cyber world mostly from FFI web site, however lobster must be added to that list which I will do to day so young Muslims around forums be warned of his deceptions and manipulation, don't forget that he likes calling himself Allah as well, , he is the most kafir with no shame calling himself a Muslim
hi Ahmed Bahgat,
this is my reply to your free-minds version of that post:
Quote:
Thank you for the explanation Ahmed. Shakir's translation certainly makes sense.
But my point wasn't that humans have wings, anyone can see that we don't. My point was that in that verse, "wings" or "wing" is being used metaphorically, or that word is being used in such a way that it doesn't mean wings with feathers which are used to flying. I suggested that maybe, just maybe it's being used similarly in the "angels have wings" verse.
Can you please explain that one? Does it say that these angels have wings like birds?
I would appreciate it if you answer my question.
peace
p.s. you got banned because you were constantly quarreling with someone, using foul language, calling others names and disrespecting them, and (the last straw) posting that list of yours which has me in it.
see, you could've said the same stuff you did without disrespecting someone, and you would still be allowed to post. And I wish you did.Believe me, I have gotten an official warning, and so has Aaron, and Magi got a temporary ban. The mods are fair. FFI is a website where they allow people to say whatever the hell they like. They like bashing Muslims, so they can't really cry fowl when they themselves are insulted.
Posted:
Mon 11 Jun, 2007 12:50 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Anonymous wrote:
hi Ahmed Bahgat,
Hello
Anonymous wrote:
this is my reply to your free-minds version of that post:
Thank you for the explanation Ahmed. Shakir's translation certainly makes sense.
But my point wasn't that humans have wings, anyone can see that we don't. My point was that in that verse, "wings" or "wing" is being used metaphorically, or that word is being used in such a way that it doesn't mean wings with feathers which are used to flying. I suggested that maybe, just maybe it's being used similarly in the "angels have wings" verse.
Can you please explain that one? Does it say that these angels have wings like birds?
Anonymous wrote:
I would appreciate it if you answer my question.
peace
Sure, when I have enough time I will look at it thoroughly
Anonymous wrote:
p.s. you got banned because you were constantly quarreling with someone, using foul language, calling others names and disrespecting them,
Of course those who mock or allow to mock the message of Allah, His prophets and even Allah, will have no atom weight of respect from me, are you bloody crazy to want me to respect such lowest of the lows?
Anonymous wrote:
and (the last straw) posting that list of yours which has me in it.
Thanks for letting me know how effective that list is, (it is going to grow really fast and the music will keep changing too, I'm still developing it btw), this is what this list is aimed for, EXPOSING THOSE FREAKS WHO DARE TO MOCK/DISTORT OR ALLOW OTHERS TO MOCK OR DISTORT the message of Allah and they will always going to be there as long as FI in online, I was even going to add the biggest hypocrite, tyrant and fake Muslim Layth (Labwa) and many of his puppets, like control freak (Savage) and forum b***h Aaron, of course messiah Ayman will have a spot in there, tough luck guys, this is life at 2007 not 1400 years ago as you are living it in your deluded barbie world while calling yourself Muslims, oh yeh Muslim my ass
Anonymous wrote:
see, you could've said the same stuff you did without disrespecting someone,
What a bunch of clear cut Mushrikoon all of you are starting with your cult leader Labwa (Layth) the biggest Mushrik and Tyrant of'm all, so you get really upset when the humans who distort Allah message and disrespect Him are insulted/mocked, are you guys a bunch of confused hypocrits that boldly? well if you claim not to be Muslims, I would have accepted your BS like I do on FFI, because the kafirs on FFI at least are not a bunch of hypocrites likes yous, they honestly claim not to believe, unlike a bunch of fakes like yous who run around like zebras believing ONLY in what you made for yourselves to believe by distorting and manipulating the message of Allah, you even dared to call the House of Allah in Mecca fake while only presenting some Tom and Jerry BS of contradicting crap.
Anonymous wrote:
and you would still be allowed to post.
BS, do you think I'm a hypocrite like yous?, or possibly thinking that I look for crowd by faking charm?, what a joke, I said what I want to say according to the freedom of speech the confused admins are giving to the mostly bunch of confused boys and girls on FM to mock Allah, His prophets and His message by distorting and manipulating it, it is the freedom of speech a clear cut kafir like Dr Ali Sina of FFI is offering to all on his web site, you know well that they come and insult him and yet he does not ban them, this is the true freedom of speech, unlike the illusion you guys are living in your Kufr gathering place at FM.
Anonymous wrote:
And I wish you did.Believe me,
I do believe you, you are a member here and I will never ban you, I actually wanted to ban you due to the anger you give me when you mock the message by all your stupid notions, however I changed my mind when i discussed it publically with other members in here, so you can give me the hardest time ever on FI and I will show you what a real freedom of speech really means, no one is allowed to mock Allah and His prophets at all, that's all. you can mock me if you wish and you will still be here.
Anonymous wrote:
I have gotten an official warning,
According to the Tyarant stupid rules in there or at elast his message of Islam (The God Alone), you should have been banned the moment you used the nick name Allah, however he is a confused web master who is running his web site like his kings in SA enslaved him and the saudi people for years and up till this moment.
Anonymous wrote:
and so has Aaron,
Aaron is a forum b***h and a stirrer and i dare him to come here and present just one valid argument, all his BS is nothing but vein talk
Anonymous wrote:
and Magi got a temporary ban.
As far as I'm concerned, Aaron is Magi, they both act like forum b***hes
and as well he can come here with just one bloody valid argument, if he can't then he can come here for a public chess game and I will destroy him on that too while every one will be watching.
But hey, can you see the Tyrant of FM and his puppets in actions?
Anonymous wrote:
The mods are fair.
Most mods on FM are fake, double faced, hypocrite and their hatred to me was fukin obvious, they only pick on me and always after I reply to those who start harssing me first, give me a break will ya, I bloody caught nadeem and savage and another one red handed doing just that, what a bunch of hypocrites,
that was it for me really, there is no way or reason for me to be ever there again but to gather info.
Anonymous wrote:
FFI is a website where they allow people to say whatever the hell they like.
Yep, and that is the true freedom of speech as far as I'm concerned, they insult Allah or any of His prophets, I insult them back and we are squared, everyone is happy.
Anonymous wrote:
They like bashing Muslims,
True, but I also like bashing them, they need an army together to take on just one man.
Anonymous wrote:
so they can't really cry fowl when they themselves are insulted.
oh yeh, thanks for confirming that it is ok on FM to mock Allah, distort His message, fabricate evidences, manipulate the Arabic language, mislead young people, manipulate the english translation while the believers should cope that sweet, but if the believers reply to them by mocking them back, the believers are banned, such a bunch of cowards on FM, I really hate that place now and I consider it as a clear cut enemy that I must fight hard and will continue to do so, I'm exposing them really well on FFI and on any web site that I visit and sure the Shameless list will shine when I add a few freaks from there
Unfortunatly you have fell with a Muslim that you have never met before
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Anonymous wrote:
hi Ahmed Bahgat,
this is my reply to your free-minds version of that post:
Hello
Quote:
Thank you for the explanation Ahmed. Shakir's translation certainly makes sense.
His translation is the one that makes sense to me more, however, while I prefer his translation, he still committed some silly mistakes.
Anonymous wrote:
But my point wasn't that humans have wings, anyone can see that we don't. My point was that in that verse, "wings" or "wing" is being used metaphorically,
That's right because there is a compelling reason to not to take it metaphorically as you just said that humans have no wings because we can see humans and see that they have no wings, as well when it is used metaphorically it is used in SINGUALR form not plural or dual.
Anonymous wrote:
or that word is being used in such a way that it doesn't mean wings with feathers which are used to flying.
certainly it does not mean wings with feathers, however it can be, who knows, on the other hand it has to mean literal wings AS LONG AS THERE IS NO COMELLING REASON TO NOT TO TAKE IT LITERALLY AS IN THE CASE OF HUMANS.
Anonymous wrote:
I suggested that maybe, just maybe it's being used similarly in the "angels have wings" verse.
It can't be because there is no reason whatsoever to take it metaphorically other than conjectures, To understand the Quran well the literal meaning should prevail UNLESS there is a comelling reason not to take it metaphorically, now if you have seen an angel as you have seen a human, can you confirm to us that the angels have no wings like humans?
Anonymous wrote:
Can you please explain that one? Does it say that these angels have wings like birds?
Ceratinly it does not say wings like birds, but that does not mean that the angel wings are not like the birds wings, at the end of the day what we are 100% certain about is, it has to mean literal wings for two reasons:
1) They are mentioned in dual format onwards, never singular with the angels or the birds
2) there is no comelling reason to take it metaphorcially, i.e. we have not seen the angels to confirm that they have no wings
so what we are left with is this:
Allah is telling us that His angels have wings starting from 2 wings onwards, PERIOD
This means they have literal wings unless you can prove to us that they don't as you have proven with the case of humans, anythnig you say without proofs is going to stay as conjectures
Anonymous wrote:
I would appreciate it if you answer my question.
peace
I hope I did and I also hope that you don't parrot the same question again and again
Status: Age: 75 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Jun 12, 2007
Posts: 614
Post subject:
Anonymous wrote:
p.s. you got banned because you were constantly quarreling with someone, using foul language, calling others names and disrespecting them, and (the last straw) posting that list of yours which has me in it.
see, you could've said the same stuff you did without disrespecting someone, and you would still be allowed to post. And I wish you did.Believe me, I have gotten an official warning, and so has Aaron, and Magi got a temporary ban. The mods are fair. FFI is a website where they allow people to say whatever the hell they like. They like bashing Muslims, so they can't really cry fowl when they themselves are insulted.
I would love to go and write on that site. Could you please provide me the link?
Regarding FFI, all they do is Islam and Muslim bashing but the minute a Muslim bashes Ali Sina and a few of his cronies, pushing them into a corner, they feel threatened of being exposed and ban the posters.
I was banned for this reason. Ali Sina wrote: "The God of Muhammad is a narcissist." I asked him,"Do you believe that the God of the Bible is also a narcissist?" he knew this was a great trick question to expose his alliance with the evangelicals. He dared not say that. LOL!
Instead, Ali Sina, kept the Christians clear (LOL) and replied,"The God of the Jews is a narcissist."
Just look at his answer and pray tell me if he was honest and sincere in his reply? Immediately after this exchange, I was banned.
Do you know that Ali Sina does not know Arabic at all? I tested and tried most of the so-called ex-Muslim Arabic experts at FFI and found them fakes. By saying a few words like Kaifa halak, anta and marhaba, does not make them experts in Arabic. LOL!
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