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Post subject: Exposing a hadith advocate and her master Reply with quote  

Hello All

Islam does not enemies when there are Muslims like this:

"jinn in a bottle" from FFI said:

Apostasy
First, let us review some verses describing Islam's stance on it:
�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢�?????�????�???�??�?�¢?�?????�????�???�??�?�¬�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢ Narrated 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims." (Bukhari V9B83N17)
�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢�?????�????�???�??�?�¢?�?????�????�???�??�?�¬�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢Narrated 'Ikrima: Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'" (Bukhari V9B84N57)

Now, let us review the Judeo-Christian verses on the subject:
�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢�?????�????�???�??�?�¢?�?????�????�???�??�?�¬�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢ "If thy brother, the son of thy wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage." (Deut. 13:6-10)
�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢�?????�????�???�??�?�¢?�?????�????�???�??�?�¬�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢ "Certain men, the children of Be'-li-al, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently, and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly" (Deut. 13:13-15)

In Islam AND Judeo-Christianity (because it is in their respective texts), apostasy is punishable by death.

Blasphemy
In Islam:
�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢�?????�????�???�??�?�¢?�?????�????�???�??�?�¬�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢ Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas: A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet was informed about it.
He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.
He sat before the Prophet and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.
Thereupon the Prophet said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood. (Abu Dawud B38N4348)
�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢�?????�????�???�??�?�¢?�?????�????�???�??�?�¬�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢ Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib: A Jewess used to abuse the Prophet and disparage him. A man strangled her till she died. The Apostle of Allah declared that no recompense was payable for her blood. (Abu Dawud B38N4349)
�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢�?????�????�???�??�?�¢?�?????�????�???�??�?�¬�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢ If thou dost question them, they declare (with emphasis): "We were only talking idly and in play." Say: "Was it at Allah, and His Signs, and His Messenger, that ye were mocking?" Make ye no excuses: ye have rejected Faith after ye had accepted it.[aka. apostasy] If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you, for that they are in sin. (S.9:65-66)

In Judeo-Christianity:
�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢�?????�????�???�??�?�¢?�?????�????�???�??�?�¬�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢ And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death. (Lev. 24:16)

In Islam AND Judeo-Christianity (because it is in their respective texts), blasphemy in both fellow believers and non-believers is punishable by death.

And just for fun, let us throw in some verses that show that Jesus wasn't quite the peacenik that he is made out to be:

�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢�?????�????�???�??�?�¢?�?????�????�???�??�?�¬�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢ Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great to be forgotten, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. (Rev. 2:20-23)

From the commentary: "The risen Jesus makes no distinction between prophets who condone idolatry and immorality and those who practice such things. He compares Jezebel to a prostitute, like the prostitute "Babylon" in chapters 17-18. She has had time to repent, but has not done so. Her punishment is to be put to bed (v. 22), "a bed of sickness in contrast with the bed of adultery" (Beckwith 1922:467). Her followers at Thyatira (those who commit adultery with her) still have time to repent, but are similarly in danger of intense, though unspecified, sufferings (v. 22). As for her children, that is, anyone who perpetuates her teaching, they will be struck dead by a plague (v. 23). Like Jezebel of old, her name and her influence will disappear from the earth (compare 2 Kings 10:1-28).
Jesus plans on revenging himself against Jezebel's 'children', her followers, by killing them for their crimes of committing and/or preaching idolatry and immorality.

�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢�?????�????�???�??�?�¢?�?????�????�???�??�?�¬�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢ And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough. (Luke 22:35-38)

This is not metaphorical, as evidenced by Jesus' disciples actually producing real swords. Jesus is in plain terms ordering them to sell their clothes to buy weapons.

Well well, have fun with that! And please, don't tell me about other verses where Jesus said peaceful things and whatnot, I am aware of them. But he also said these things, so let us discuss what is at hand here. Also, please do not launch into a 'but Islam is worse than Christianity, Mohammed is a pedophile, etc. etc.' because, while you may feel this to be true, this is not the topic of the discussion. We are talking about these specific verses I have brought up that show agreement between the Abrahamic religions. And please, no Hindus and Sikhs coming in just to add an 'and that's why my religion is better'. This is a discussion about the meaning of these verses and the similarity between the Abrahamic religions in these cases, and all that that implies.

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jinn in a bottle wrote:
Apostasy
First, let us review some verses describing Islam's stance on it:
�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢�?????�????�???�??�?�¢?�?????�????�???�??�?�¬�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢ Narrated 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims." (Bukhari V9B83N17)
�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢�?????�????�???�??�?�¢?�?????�????�???�??�?�¬�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢Narrated 'Ikrima: Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'" (Bukhari V9B84N57)

Now, let us review the Judeo-Christian verses on the subject:
�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢�?????�????�???�??�?�¢?�?????�????�???�??�?�¬�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢ "If thy brother, the son of thy wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage." (Deut. 13:6-10)
�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢�?????�????�???�??�?�¢?�?????�????�???�??�?�¬�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢ "Certain men, the children of Be'-li-al, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently, and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly" (Deut. 13:13-15)

In Islam AND Judeo-Christianity (because it is in their respective texts), apostasy is punishable by death.



Salam Jinn in a Bottle


I was wondering mate, you have used the Bible to confirm the apostasy punsishment under Judeo-Christianity faith, this makes sense because the Quran tells us that the NT and OT are their scriptures, however you didn't use the Quran to confirm the apostasy punishment under Islam,

You resorted to a hearsay hadith narrated by a couple called Abdullah and Ikrima, which I'm sure you don't know both nor you can proof their existance, UNLESS YOU BELIEVE that they existed for real, which is fair enough, my question though, are Muslims required to believe in what Abduallah and 'Ikrima said as if it is ordained from Allah?, well that is a tough question btw, I hope you can enlighten me with some great answer

What makes it really funny Jinn in a bottle, that you didn't even heard Abduallah or Ikrima saying as such, you only read it in a book by someone called Bukhari which I'm sure you don't know as well, so Bukhari claimed that someone called Abdullah and another one named Ikrima said as such, so would that make it Sharia in Islam?, if so I would like see your proofs from the Quran

Thanks

Salam

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Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Sat 28 Jul, 2007 8:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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"jinn in a bottle" from FFI said:

Ah, you are a Qur'an-only Muslim? Bad news. First point, do you know that Bukhari's chains of narration are frequently stronger than the Qur'an's?

Also, the existence of Bukhari is as documented as the existence of Mohammed is, so unless you choose to mistrust the documentation there exists of the existence of Mohammed, you should not discount the same nature of evidence there exists of the existence of Bukhari.

Third, to quote from the intro to Imam Muslim's Al-Jami'-Us-Sahih:

Quote:
The question arises: Did the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) utter not a word besides what was revealed to him by the Lord in the form of the Qur'an? The answer obviously is: No. He did also explain the contents of the Divine revelations. He gave practical demonstration of their significance by leading his life according to them, and was thus instrumental in moulding the lives of his Companions after his own pattern of life. He did all this, of course, under Divine inspiration.

This is why the Holy Qur'an has been declared as a Guide and a Light and the Prophet's noble life as a model for the Muslims:

Indeed, there has come to you from Allah a Light and a Book Luminous (v. 15).

Verily in the Apostle of Allah you have the best example for everyone who looks forward towards Allah and the Day of judgment (xxxiii. 21).

It is only from the Holy Qur'an and the authentic record of the Ahadith that we can obtain full view of this model. Thus, next to the Holy Qur'an the Hadith is the second source of the Islamic Law of social and personal behaviour, because the commandments of the Holy Prophet are as binding on the believers as the Commands of Allah.

Whenever Allah and the Apostle have decided a matter, it is not for a faithful man or woman to follow a course of their own choice (xxxiii. 36).

Some of the misguided people suggest that the commands of the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) were valid only during his lifetime, and that now when he is no more amongst us, we need follow only the injunctions of the Holy Qur'an and treat the Hadith as an account of the past which has some allusions to the life of the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him), having no practical value as a code of life. These so-called pseudo-reformers little realise that a denial of the eternal validity of the Sunnah amounts to a denial of the Holy Qur'an's claim that the prophethood of Muhammad (may peace be upon him) is not time-bound; it is universal and the Prophet's words and deeds are the timeless expression of the Will of Allah.


Hadith are no more hearsay than the Qur'an is, with its chain of narration, where the first person heard Mohammed say the verse, memorised it, then told it to the next person in the chain who memorised it, passed it on to another, etc. It is absolutely necessary to accept the validity of the Sunnah, because, common sense says that Mohammed gave extra-Qur'anic directions to his followers on everyday life issues. These pronouncements were even written down in his lifetime, and vast collections were compiled and carefully studied for corroboration, uprightness of character of the narrators, etc. Are we just going to discard the things Mohammed said and did?! How can we?! The Qur'an says that Mohammed is the example we must follow. How can we do that if we don't know what he did? The Qur'an says that we must not forbid what Mohammed has allowed and not allow what Mohammed has forbidden. How can we be sure we're doing the right thing if we ignore the pronouncements Mohammed made in case examples and the extra material that helps explain the Qur'an and its meanings?

You are indeed being extreme in your approach and I am afraid for you, because by discarding these sahih ahadith, you are disregarding the word of Mohammed and thus the word of Allah.

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"iloveu" from FFI said:


Anti-Islamic agents are hypocrite. They always use NO.2 source (hearsays) of Islam to justify their evil agenda. Why don't they use NO.1 source of all religions to compare themselves???

They have been defeated by Quran and that's why they are using Hadiths (hearsays) to spread lies against Islam.

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"iloveu" from FFI said:

jinn in a bottle wrote:
Ah, you are a Qur'an-only Muslim? Bad news. First point, do you know that Bukhari's chains of narration are frequently stronger than the Qur'an's?

Also, the existence of Bukhari is as documented as the existence of Mohammed is, so unless you choose to mistrust the documentation there exists of the existence of Mohammed, you should not discount the same nature of evidence there exists of the existence of Bukhari.

Third, to quote from the intro to Imam Muslim's Al-Jami'-Us-Sahih:

Quote:
The question arises: Did the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) utter not a word besides what was revealed to him by the Lord in the form of the Qur'an? The answer obviously is: No. He did also explain the contents of the Divine revelations. He gave practical demonstration of their significance by leading his life according to them, and was thus instrumental in moulding the lives of his Companions after his own pattern of life. He did all this, of course, under Divine inspiration.

This is why the Holy Qur'an has been declared as a Guide and a Light and the Prophet's noble life as a model for the Muslims:

Indeed, there has come to you from Allah a Light and a Book Luminous (v. 15).

Verily in the Apostle of Allah you have the best example for everyone who looks forward towards Allah and the Day of judgment (xxxiii. 21).

It is only from the Holy Qur'an and the authentic record of the Ahadith that we can obtain full view of this model. Thus, next to the Holy Qur'an the Hadith is the second source of the Islamic Law of social and personal behaviour, because the commandments of the Holy Prophet are as binding on the believers as the Commands of Allah.

Whenever Allah and the Apostle have decided a matter, it is not for a faithful man or woman to follow a course of their own choice (xxxiii. 36).

Some of the misguided people suggest that the commands of the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) were valid only during his lifetime, and that now when he is no more amongst us, we need follow only the injunctions of the Holy Qur'an and treat the Hadith as an account of the past which has some allusions to the life of the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him), having no practical value as a code of life. These so-called pseudo-reformers little realise that a denial of the eternal validity of the Sunnah amounts to a denial of the Holy Qur'an's claim that the prophethood of Muhammad (may peace be upon him) is not time-bound; it is universal and the Prophet's words and deeds are the timeless expression of the Will of Allah.


Hadith are no more hearsay than the Qur'an is, with its chain of narration, where the first person heard Mohammed say the verse, memorised it, then told it to the next person in the chain who memorised it, passed it on to another, etc. It is absolutely necessary to accept the validity of the Sunnah, because, common sense says that Mohammed gave extra-Qur'anic directions to his followers on everyday life issues. These pronouncements were even written down in his lifetime, and vast collections were compiled and carefully studied for corroboration, uprightness of character of the narrators, etc. Are we just going to discard the things Mohammed said and did?! How can we?! The Qur'an says that Mohammed is the example we must follow. How can we do that if we don't know what he did? The Qur'an says that we must not forbid what Mohammed has allowed and not allow what Mohammed has forbidden. How can we be sure we're doing the right thing if we ignore the pronouncements Mohammed made in case examples and the extra material that helps explain the Qur'an and its meanings?

You are indeed being extreme in your approach and I am afraid for you, because by discarding these sahih ahadith, you are disregarding the word of Mohammed and thus the word of Allah.


Stop talking BS, idiot. Why don't you use NO.1 source of all religions to compare between them? Why are you comparing NO.1 source of Judaism/Chirstianity with NO.2 source of Islam to justify your evil agenda? Have you been defeated by the Quran?

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"jinn in a bottle" from FFI said:

iloveu wrote:
Anti-Islamic agents are hypocrite. They always use NO.2 source (hearsays) of Islam to justify their evil agenda. Why don't they use NO.1 source of all religions to compare themselves???

They have been defeated by Quran and that's why they are using Hadiths (hearsays) to spread lies against Islam.


Anti-Islamic agents? Don't insult me like this.

Just because Sunnah is the second-most important source on Islam doesn't mean it is invalid. If it contradicts the Qur'an, then it is not a good hadith, but nothing in the Sahih collections contradict the Qur'an, hence why they are called Sahih. Now, if you want to try to provide a verse in the Qur'an that contradicts the ahadith I have provided, go ahead. But until you can, how dare you #1 pronounce takfir on me #2 call the Sahih ahadith "hearsay" because they are often stronger than the Qur'an, and if they are hearsay even when being stronger than the Qur'an's narrative chains and even when they were being recorded while the Prophet was alive, then you might as well be calling the Qur'an hearsay, because goodness knows, it was collected in the same manner from the same pool of early Muslims.

The Qur'an is not altogether explicit on the matter of apostasy, just as the Qur'an is not altogether explicit on many issues of importance in everyday life, which is the reason why Sunnah is needed �??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢�?????�????�???�??�?�¢?�?????�????�???�??�?�¬�?????�????�???�??�?�¢?�?????�????�???�??�?� because it is impossible that all the important yet perhaps more 'earthly matters' topics can be addressed in the Qur'an �??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢�?????�????�???�??�?�¢?�?????�????�???�??�?�¬�?????�????�???�??�?�¢?�?????�????�???�??�?� which is why the Prophet still taught and was consulted during his lifetime! He didn't just lie back and wait for the next revelation. So just because I don't bring in a Qur'an verse to support the ahadith doesn't mean that I'm omitting something contradictory; it may just be that the Qur'an is silent or not clear on the matter. But here is an ayah that seem to support the punishment detailed in the sahih ahadith:

�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢�?????�????�???�??�?�¢?�?????�????�???�??�?�¬�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢ But (even so), if they repent, establish regular prayers, and practise regular charity,- they are your brethren in Faith: (thus) do We explain the Signs in detail, for those who understand. But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and taunt you for your Faith,- fight ye the chiefs of Unfaith: for their oaths are nothing to them: that thus they may be restrained. (S.9:11-12)

This seems to suggest that we have converts to Islam here (became "brethren in Faith" after they "establish[ed] regular prayers") and then they apostatised ("violate[d] their oaths after their covenant") so they are to be fought against.

Also, it seems you, AhmedBahgat, accept the blasphemy punishment. In that case, understand that the crime ascribed to the Muslim blasphemer is apostasy ("ye have rejected Faith after ye had accepted it", S.9:65-66) when prescribing the punishment of death, which is standard for blasphemers.

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jinn in a bottle wrote:
Ah,


Salam

Is this how your hearsay hadith taught you to reply to a greeting?

Well, let me see what my Quran taught me to reply to a greeting:


And when you are greeted with a greeting, greet with a better (greeting) than it or return it; surely Allah takes account of all things.

[The Quran ; 4:86]

وَإِذَا حُيِّيْتُم بِتَحِيَّةٍ فَحَيُّواْ بِأَحْسَنَ مِنْهَا أَوْ رُدُّوهَا إِنَّ اللّهَ كَانَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ حَسِيبًا (86)


-> See how clear it is :And when you are greeted with a greeting, greet with a better (greeting) than it or return it; surely Allah takes account of all things.


Well, which teaching you go for?

I go for the Quran teaching of course

jinn in a bottle wrote:
you are a Qur'an-only Muslim? Bad news.


If that is a question then no I'm not, I follow the sunnah of the prophet that is confirmed by the Quran not confirmed by Abdullah, Ikrima and Bukhari,

This indeed should make me the TRUE QURAN ALONER and THE TRUE SUNNI

This must be a very bad news to you indeed.

jinn in a bottle wrote:
First point, do you know that Bukhari's chains of narration are frequently stronger than the Qur'an's?


LOL, are you nuts to think I will even believe your non sense and blasphemy?

Well, there is no chains of narrators for the Quran, I don't see it when I read the Quran, I only see the words In The Name of Allah so there is only one narrator who is Allah, now Allah told us this in His Quran:

Surely We have revealed the Reminder and We will most surely be its guardian.

[The Quran ; 15:9]

إِنَّا نَحْنُ نَزَّلْنَا الذِّكْرَ وَإِنَّا لَهُ لَحَافِظُونَ (9)

-> See, We have revealed the Reminder and We will most surely be its guardian., but for you the human who guarded the hearsay hadith are more authentic than Allah who is guarding the Quran, see how your blasphemy is exposed?, well if that was not enough let me expose it further:

17: It is for Us to collect it and to promulgate it:
18: Therefore when We have recited it, follow its recitation.
19: Nay more, it is for Us to explain it

[The Quran ; 75:17-19]

إِنَّ عَلَيْنَا جَمْعَهُ وَقُرْآنَهُ (17)
فَإِذَا قَرَأْنَاهُ فَاتَّبِعْ قُرْآنَهُ (18)
ثُمَّ إِنَّ عَلَيْنَا بَيَانَهُ (19)

-> See, It is for Us to collect it, i.e. Allah was in charge in collecting the Quran, however that is not good enough for you, you dared to even claim that the hadith collectors (Bukhari, Muslim etc) are more authentic in collecting the hearsay than Alah have been when He collected the Quran, can you see how your blasphemy is exposed again?

-> Well, the next verse is telling us that when the Quran is recited we should follow its recitation : Therefore when We have recited it, follow its recitation., but again that is not good enough for you to follow, you want to follow something else along with it, if what you want to follow along the Quran is not contradicting the Quran then there should be no problem with that, but if what you want to follow along the Quran contradicts the Quran, then you either a Mushrik or a Hypocrite, and in both cases you should earn Hell level 7 (God forbids). Obviously what you told us so far that you want to follow is contradicting the Quran in at least the following:

1) The punishment of apostasy
2) The authentication of the Quran

Again, can you see how your blasphemy is exposed? I hope it is exposed more to yourelf than exposing it to the public, I really care less to expose it to the public however the conversation we have is public so bad news for both of us.

jinn in a bottle wrote:
Also, the existence of Bukhari is as documented as the existence of Mohammed is, so unless you choose to mistrust the documentation there exists of the existence of Mohammed, you should not discount the same nature of evidence there exists of the existence of Bukhari.


What a total non sense, what you say is rubbish, you should be ashamed of yourself, you lost the last atom of respect I have for you really, that guy Bukhari is a clear cut liar, he claimed to have filtered 600,000 hadith after going through intense researching and travelling to confirm every single one of them, that made him end with about 7000 hadiths, if we give him 1 single bloody hour to do what he claimed, then we have 600,000 bloody hours, this should make it equal to 25000 bloody days, i. bloody e. he needed a whooping 68 bloody years working his ass 24 bloody hours a day continuously without any time to piss, sleep, eat, , pray 5 times a day, reciting the Quran and most importantly worshipping Allah, not to mention praying all the other sunnahs he confirmed. See the guy is a clear cut liar, this guy only wanted his name to be associated with Mohammad for eternity, unfortunately he succeeded, well it is not him who succeeded, rather he failed drastically, but the one who succeeded is Satan, because he must succeed after telling Allah that most of us will be Mushrikoon, well you have the symptoms of shirk of course as you just told us that Bukhari is more authentic in collecting his hearsay than Allah being authentic in collecting His Quran.

jinn in a bottle wrote:
Third, to quote from the intro to Imam Muslim's Al-Jami'-Us-Sahih:


Good that you brought this on the table, let me reply to it then:

Quote:
The question arises: Did the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him)


What a load of non sense, the question that should arise right now:

WAS THE PROPHET HOLY?

Of course he was not, he was only a Rasool Karim, i.e. an Honoured Messenger, not bloody HOLY, this is total non sense and shows clearly how their shirk has started, look at what it is said to their HOLY prophet and all the humans together including him, you and me:

30: Surely you shall die and they (too) shall surely die.

[The Quran ; 34:30]

إِنَّكَ مَيِّتٌ وَإِنَّهُم مَّيِّتُونَ (30)

-> Hmmm Surely you shall die and they (too) shall surely die., that does not look like holy to me.

How about this:

Say: I am not the first of the messengers, and I do not know what will be done with me or with you: I do not follow anything but that which is revealed to me, and I am nothing but a plain warner.

[The Quran ; 46:9]

قُلْ مَا كُنتُ بِدْعًا مِّنْ الرُّسُلِ وَمَا أَدْرِي مَا يُفْعَلُ بِي وَلَا بِكُمْ إِنْ أَتَّبِعُ إِلَّا مَا يُوحَى إِلَيَّ وَمَا أَنَا إِلَّا نَذِيرٌ مُّبِينٌ (9)

-> See, Say: I am not the first of the messengers, i.e. he was like any other messenger, then we read the prophet was ordered to say : and I do not know what will be done with me or with you, HE DOES NOT KNOW WHAT WILL BE DONE TO HIM OR US, that does not sound HOLY to me either.

I reckon the prophet was a human like me and you, well, it seems that this is what Allah told us too:

Say: I am but a man like yourselves, (but) the inspiration has come to me, that your God is one God: whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner.

[The Quran ; 18:110]

قُلْ إِنَّمَا أَنَا بَشَرٌ مِّثْلُكُمْ يُوحَى إِلَيَّ أَنَّمَا إِلَهُكُمْ إِلَهٌ وَاحِدٌ فَمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو لِقَاء رَبِّهِ فَلْيَعْمَلْ عَمَلًا صَالِحًا وَلَا يُشْرِكْ بِعِبَادَةِ رَبِّهِ أَحَدًا (110)

-> See, Say: I am but a man like yourselves,, but hey, look at how the verses ended, whoever expects to meet his Lord, let him work righteousness, and, in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner. , will this must raise a very important question, is making the prophet HOLY may be an act of admitting others as partners?, sounds like to me.

From all the above it seems the prophet is mortal and in no way HOLY, but mister Muslim wants to make us believe that the prophet was HOLY, well I'm not going to buy it,

Would anyone buy it?

Oh yeh, millions of confused Muslims have bought it

Well done, clap clap clap clap clap (using my finger tips as usual with the losers)

Quote:
utter not a word besides what was revealed to him by the Lord in the form of the Qur'an?


What a silly question,

Bloody crap man, of course the prophet uttered other words beside what was revealed to him (the Quran), whatever day to day life he went through, it is not like he was reciting the Quran 24 hours a day like mister Bukhari did with his hadith for bloody 68 years continuously without even pissing.

Quote:
The answer obviously is: No.


LOL, what a load of non sense man, I can't believe that such people have brains, so mister Muslim is telling us the prophet DID NOT utter a word beside what was revealed to him, who is the idiot to believe that?, well the Quran told us that at least once he spoke of his own desires and faulted then Allah corrected him and exposed him to all humanity:

1: O Prophet! why do you forbid (yourself) that which Allah has made lawful for you; you desire to please your wives; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
2: Allah indeed has sanctioned for you the expiation of your oaths and Allah is your Protector, and He is the Knowing the Wise.

[The Quran ; 66:1-2]

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ لِمَ تُحَرِّمُ مَا أَحَلَّ اللَّهُ لَكَ تَبْتَغِي مَرْضَاتَ أَزْوَاجِكَ وَاللَّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ (1)
قَدْ فَرَضَ اللَّهُ لَكُمْ تَحِلَّةَ أَيْمَانِكُمْ وَاللَّهُ مَوْلَاكُمْ وَهُوَ الْعَلِيمُ الْحَكِيمُ (2)

-> Here is a clear fault by the prophet in the beginning of sura 66, according to the hearsay hadith (history record) the prophet was at the house of one of his wives and ate something in there (possibly honey) then he left and went to another house of another one of his wives but she became a bit upset or sort of because he was at the other wife houese and ate the honey in there, so the prophet replied to his upset wife by stating that he will never eat the honey again, i.e. he made an allowed food forbidden to him and only to please one of his wives, obviously he violated the laws of Allah so Allah exposed him to give all humanity a lesson : O Prophet! why do you forbid (yourself) that which Allah has made lawful for you;, see, what the prophet said can't be a revelation from the One Might in power, nor it is not according to the prophet desires rather: تَبْتَغِي مَرْضَاتَ أَزْوَاجِكَ, i.e. you desire to please your wives, and because the prophet faulted Allah is going to forgive and bless him with mercy and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

-> However the prophet still needed to do something to fix his fault : Allah indeed has sanctioned for you the expiation of your oaths and Allah is your Protector, and He is the Knowing the Wise.

Clearly the story conjectured in the hearsay hadith which is confirmed by the Quran can't be revealed from Allah and surely it was according to the prophet own desire to please one of his upset wives who should not be upset from the first place, i.e. he faulted based on another fault by one of his wives.

Quote:
He did also explain the contents of the Divine revelations.


Not at all, he only explained less than 50% of the Quran, in fact the hearsay hadith of Bukhari has explanation to about 50 verses from sura Al Baqara which is 286 verses, i.e. just above 17% that conjectured to be explained by the prophet regarding the longest sura in the Quran, a few suras were not mentioned AT ALL in the hadith, so what the Ummah should do with the rest of the Quran that we cannot find any explanation to it in the hadith of Bukhari and Muslim?, yeh we should be lost, it seems that might be the real reason for our current loss now, yeh right

Quote:
He gave practical demonstration of their significance by leading his life according to them,


Oh yeh, that was obvious:

1) By sleeping with his 9 wives in one night without having a bath in between, you know, he was given a sexual power of 40 men, opps, I mean 30, well, you pick, the two numbers are there.
2) By refusing to include the stoning verses in clear violation to the orders in the Quran, yeh right
3) By stoning people for adultery while Allah said to whip then 100 lashes

I have more to add, but I'm sure that the above hearsay should conflict with the following testimony about the prophet by Allah Himself:

3: And most surely you shall have a reward never to be cut off.
4: And most surely you conform (yourself) to sublime morality.

[The Quran ; 68:3-4]

وَإِنَّ لَكَ لَأَجْرًا غَيْرَ مَمْنُونٍ (3)
وَإِنَّكَ لَعَلى خُلُقٍ عَظِيمٍ (4)

-> See And most surely you shall have a reward never to be cut off., how come he can be rewarded as such while he refused to include the stoning verses in the Quran?, and even if you say that this hearsay hadith about his refusal are weak, i.e. those stoning verses were never revealed, then how come he came of his own with another punishment that conflicts with the punishment already ordained by Allah for the same crime?, can he be rewarded as such after modifying Allah words?, I don't think so

-> See more: And most surely you conform (yourself) to sublime morality., how come he can he can be described as such by Allah while mister Muslim and Bukhari tell us that they heard that the prophet slept with all his wives in one night without bathing in between?, is that the best of morality?, sounds like a sex monger to me.

Who should I believe, mister, the hearsay hadith that is telling us the prophet was a sex monger or Allah who is telling us the prophet was conforming himself to sublime morality?, well I chose to believe Allah.

Quote:
and was thus instrumental in moulding the lives of his Companions after his own pattern of life.


Oh yeh, as if they bloody listened to him, are you that confused mister Muslim, oh come on, let me refresh your dead memory and according to your hearsay:

1) Soon after the prophet died, Omar was murdered
2) Then Uthman was held under house arrest and murdered
3) Then Ali fought with Aysha and she fell pow to him but he set her free
4) Soon after the battle, Ali was murdered

And it continued to go down and down until it reached what we have today, looks like Satan promise to Allah is 100% true.

Quote:
He did all this, of course, under Divine inspiration.


Yeh right, of course he forbade what was lawful to him to please one of his wives under divine revelation, oh yeh of course he shunned a blind and believing man favouring some bunch of ignorant and rich kafirs and that was under divine revelation, come on, he must be sleeping with his 9 wives in one night without having a bath because the one Who revealed everything to him, also gave him the sexual power of 40 men, opps I mean 30, haha, you pick.

Quote:
This is why the Holy Qur'an has been declared as a Guide and a Light and the Prophet's noble life as a model for the Muslims:

Indeed, there has come to you from Allah a Light and a Book Luminous (v. 15).


This is one hell of an ignorant comment that makes me want to laugh and cry at the same time, I have never seen such manipulation by such people trying hard to make us commit shirk with them, well, this guy Muslim is telling us that the Quran is a mere light, but all the laws comes from the prophet, the ignorant author posted a single verse saying the Quran is a light and a luminous book shiftly underestimating what the Quran says about its self, so I decided to reply intensively to such crap to expose to every one how ignorant the person who said as such:

To be continued.....

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Post subject: Reply with quote  

The Sunni and Shia hadith advocates really missed the plot, they are trying to force all the hadith posted in the two Sahih as Sharia laws that has to be believed in and implemented by all Muslims otherwise they will be labelled kafiroon, the problem for them though that Allah never told us as such, He never even stressed any importance to the prophet hadith, in fact the prophet hadith was never mentioned in the Quran, how come then it is sharia laws?, unless we commit shirk and find other laws in addition to the Quran then we bundleled together as one Sharia from God and his partners Naooz Bellah

What the Quran said though is straightforward and clear, our only source of sharia is the Quran, the prophet hadith should only be considered mere teachings from a great man, it is definitely the worst sin to consider the human words equivalent to the God's words and that is exactly what the majority of the Sunni and Shai are doing for many many years

Let's see what Allah said about His Quran, we will see clearly there is nothing like Allah's words, we will also see that the Quran was designed to be easy for remembrance, Allah is responsible for collecting it, guarding it and explaining it, and because it was planned to be the last warning before the Judgment Day, Allah has included all types or parables (that will help us in this tough test) in it :

And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?

[The Quran , 54: 17 ; 22 ; 32 ; 40 ]

وَلَقَدْ يَسَّرْنَا الْقُرْآنَ لِلذِّكْرِ فَهَلْ مِن مُّدَّكِرٍ (17)

-> In sura no. 17 the Quran repeated this sentence 4 times in verses 17,22,32,40, indeed Allah has made the Quran easy to remember : And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to remember, then He is reminding us : then is there any that will receive admonition?, obviously four times this verse was mentioned in the same sura highlights the importance of this piece of information information.


Verily, We have made this (Qur'an) easy, in thy tongue, in order that they may give heed.

[The Quran , 44:58]

فَإِنَّمَا يَسَّرْنَاهُ بِلِسَانِكَ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَذَكَّرُونَ (58)

-> Another verse that confirms Allah has made the Quran easy on Mohammad tongue, despite Mohammad lacked the knowledge of reading and writing: Verily, We have made this (Qur'an) easy, in thy tongue, so the prophet will deliver the Quran to : in order that they may give heed., so we can understand that the Quran was the only source used by the prophet to deliver Allah message.


So have We made the (Qur'an) easy in thine own tongue, that with it thou mayest give Glad Tidings to the righteous, and warnings to people given to contention.

[The Quran , 19:97]

فَإِنَّمَا يَسَّرْنَاهُ بِلِسَانِكَ لِتُبَشِّرَ بِهِ الْمُتَّقِينَ وَتُنذِرَ بِهِ قَوْمًا لُّدًّا (97)

-> Same info in this verse regarding the prophet memorising and understanding the Quran: So have We made the (Qur'an) easy in thine own tongue, then the prophet will use the Quran to : that with it thou mayest give Glad Tidings to the righteous, and warnings to people given to contention.,


For We had certainly sent unto them a Book, based on knowledge, which We explained in detail,- a guide and a mercy to all who believe.

[The Quran , 7:52]

وَلَقَدْ جِئْنَاهُم بِكِتَابٍ فَصَّلْنَاهُ عَلَى عِلْمٍ هُدًى وَرَحْمَةً لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ (52)

-> In this verse it is clear that Allah sent us the Quran, as well Allah explained it in details because it is the guidance and mercy to all believers: For We had certainly sent unto them a Book, based on knowledge, which We explained in detail,- a guide and a mercy to all who believe., clear as light that Allah explained His book within itself , i.e. the Quran explains itself. As well, many other verses were explained by the prophet as inspired by Allah. Other devote Muslims can also discover the meanings with the help of Allah.


Then what HADITH, after the Quran, will they believe in?

[The Quran , 77:50]

فَبِأَيِّ حَدِيثٍ بَعْدَهُ يُؤْمِنُونَ (50)

-> This is an important verse, as it shows us that Allah is asking what other HADITH than the Quran will make people believe?, sure NONE, including the hadith of the prophet Mohammad and the hadith Qudsi as well, the Arabic word used to describe the Quran was HADITH the same word we use for the prophet sayings, because the Arabic word HADITH means TALK or SPEECH, so we have 2 different Hadiths:

A) Hadith by Allah The Quran
B) Hadith by Mohammad The Prophet Sayings

It is very easy to find the major differences between them:

A) is by Allah The Creator, reserved by Allah The Author and never been changed.
B) is by Mohammad A Human , never been reserved accurately, and many fabricated ones by the enemy of Islam have been invented.

Does anyone fail to recognise which hadith of the above is Holy and which is not?


Those who conceal what We have sent down from the signs and the Guidance, after We have explained it for the people in the Book,-on them shall be Allah's curse, and the curse of those entitled to curse,-

[The Quran , 2:159]

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَكْتُمُونَ مَا أَنزَلْنَا مِنَ الْبَيِّنَاتِ وَالْهُدَى مِن بَعْدِ مَا بَيَّنَّاهُ لِلنَّاسِ فِي الْكِتَابِ أُولَئِكَ يَلعَنُهُمُ اللّهُ وَيَلْعَنُهُمُ اللَّاعِنُونَ (159)

-> In here we can see, Allah is warning the people who conceal hide the guidance after He explained this guidance in the Quran: Those who conceal We have sent down from the signs and the Guidance, after We have explained it for the people in the Book, and the punishment is : on them shall be Allah's curse, and the curse of those entitled to curse, , it is clear that Allah is telling us tat all the Guidance is explained in the Quran. after We have explained it for the people in the Book


And this is a Book which We have revealed as a blessing: so follow it and be righteous, that ye may receive mercy:

[The Quran , 6:155]

وَهَذَا كِتَابٌ أَنزَلْنَاهُ مُبَارَكٌ فَاتَّبِعُوهُ وَاتَّقُواْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُرْحَمُونَ (155)

-> Allah is telling us in this verse that the Quran is a blessing and WE MUST FOLLOW IT: And this is a Book which We have revealed as a blessing: so follow it and be righteous , and for the people who will follow it: that ye may receive mercy: , Allah never told us to follow the hadith of Mohammad, because the ahdith of Mohammad is nothing but mere teachings from a great man.


(2) A Book revealed unto thee,- So let thy heart be oppressed no more by any difficulty on that account,- that with it thou mightest warn (the erring) and teach the Believers).

(3) Follow (O men!) the revelation given unto you from your Lord, and follow not, as protectors, other than Him. Little it is ye remember of admonition.

[The Quran , 7:2-3]

كِتَابٌ أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ فَلاَ يَكُن فِي صَدْرِكَ حَرَجٌ مِّنْهُ لِتُنذِرَ بِهِ وَذِكْرَى لِلْمُؤْمِنِينَ (2)
اتَّبِعُواْ مَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكُم مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ وَلاَ تَتَّبِعُواْ مِن دُونِهِ أَوْلِيَاء قَلِيلاً مَّا تَذَكَّرُونَ (3)

-> In these 2 verses we have a clear message from Allah that He sent the Quran and the prophet should not be hesitant to warn the people using it TO WARN AND TEACH THE BELIEVERS : Book revealed unto thee,- So let thy heart be oppressed no more by any difficulty on that account,- that with it thou mightest warn (the erring) and teach the Believers). . This is very important note, because the Quran is what the prophet have used to teach and warn THE BELIVERS , then Allah is telling us to follow the Quran and NEVER TAKE ANY ONE WHATSOEVER to follow other than Allah: Follow (O men!) the revelation given unto you from your Lord, and follow not, as protectors, other than Him. however most humans: Little it is ye remember of admonition. , a very strong message to use the Quran as the major source of Sharia, some may think that 7:3 conflicts with all the other verses where Allah told us to follow His prophet, while in here it says only to follow Allah, well, there is no conflict whatsoever becase the prophet delivered what Allah gave him to deliver, the prophet didn't invent anything other than what he was ordered by Allah to invent like how to perform Salat, i.e. all the prophet actions should be qualified by the Quran, therefore following the prophet indeed means following Allah alone, but ONLY if we follow what is qualified by the Quran, in this case we will have a strong argument in our defence if we found ourselves liable of committing shirk (The unforgivable sin)


A. L. R. (This is) a Book, with verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning), further explained in detail,- from One Who is Wise and Well-acquainted (with all things):

[The Quran , 11:1]

الَر كِتَابٌ أُحْكِمَتْ آيَاتُهُ ثُمَّ فُصِّلَتْ مِن لَّدُنْ حَكِيمٍ خَبِيرٍ (1)

-> We have seen how Allah stressed in a couple of verses that the Quran is the major source of belief and guidance, we have also read that Allah made it easy for remembrance as well He explained it within itself, in this verse we read that Allah is saying: (This is) a Book, with verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning), further explained in detail,- from One Who is Wise and Well-acquainted (with all things): , ie, the Quran has verses basic or fundamental established meaning , yet Allah further explained it in details, well if you read the Quran a lot you will see the miracle in how the verses relate to each other and NEVER conflict despite the additional info they add to each other to bring a complete story, many things are repeated numerous times using different words with the same exact meanings.


A. L. R. These are the verses of wise Revelation,

[The Quran , 15:1]

الر تِلْكَ آيَاتُ الْكِتَابِ الْحَكِيمِ (1)

-> A short verse to tell us that Quran is obvious to recognise: These are the verses of wise Revelation, , almost all translators translated this verse wrong, they claim it means the Quran makes things clear., however Al Kitab Al Hakim does not mean that indeed, it only means that the Quran is obvious to recognise that it is from Allah, but this will be another comment


Alif Lam Ra. These are the verses of the obvious Book

[The Quran , 12:1]

الر تِلْكَ آيَاتُ الْكِتَابِ الْمُبِينِ (1)

-> Same is confirmed here, These are the verses of the obvious Book , again many translators translated this verse wrong, they think Al Kitab Al Mubin means the book that makes things manifest, but it actually means it is obvious that the book is from our God, this will be explained in details in another comment


Alif Lam Ra. (This is) a Book which We have revealed to you that you may bring forth men, by their Lord's permission from utter darkness into light-- to the way of the Mighty, the Praised One,

[The Quran , 14:1]

الَر كِتَابٌ أَنزَلْنَاهُ إِلَيْكَ لِتُخْرِجَ النَّاسَ مِنَ الظُّلُمَاتِ إِلَى النُّورِ بِإِذْنِ رَبِّهِمْ إِلَى صِرَاطِ الْعَزِيزِ الْحَمِيدِ (1)

-> This verse also shows us the objective of the Quran as the main tool for the prophet to bring the people out of the darkness to the light (This is) a Book which We have revealed to you that you may bring forth men, by their Lord's permission from utter darkness into light , and what is the light? It is: to the way of the Mighty, the Praised One , ie the Quran is the main and most important source to know the way to Allah the Praised One.


And We sent down the Book to thee for the express purpose, that thou shouldst explain to them those things in which they differ, and that it should be a guide and a mercy to those who believe.

[The Quran , 16:64]

وَمَا أَنزَلْنَا عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ إِلاَّ لِتُبَيِّنَ لَهُمُ الَّذِي اخْتَلَفُواْ فِيهِ وَهُدًى وَرَحْمَةً لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ (64)

-> The verse tells us that the Quran was revealed so people can resolve things in which they differ as Mohammad should have been explaining it to them : And We sent down the Book to thee for the express purpose, that thou shouldst explain to them those things in which they differ, , as well its purpose : and that it should be a guide and a mercy to those who believe. , another strong message that highlights the importance of the Quran by Allah, it should be noted that the prophet used the Quran to explain to the people the things in which they have differed, ie. all the hadith of the prophet MUST BE QUALIFIED BY THE QURAN BECAUSE THAT WAS THE ONLY TOOL HE WAS USING ACCORDING TO 16:64, see the Quran qualifies the hadith NOT the other way around


We have revealed for you (O men!) a book in which is a Message for you: will ye not then understand?

[The Quran , 21:10]

لَقَدْ أَنزَلْنَا إِلَيْكُمْ كِتَابًا فِيهِ ذِكْرُكُمْ أَفَلَا تَعْقِلُونَ (10)

-> A straight forward verse : We have revealed for you (O men!) a book in which is a Message for you , but look how the verse is ending with wonder: : will ye not then understand? , it is like come on, please understand and start pondering upon the Quran.


Surely they who recite the Book of Allah and keep up prayer and spend out of what We have given them secretly and openly, hope for a gain which will not perish.

[The Quran , 35:29]

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَتْلُونَ كِتَابَ اللَّهِ وَأَقَامُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَأَنفَقُوا مِمَّا رَزَقْنَاهُمْ سِرًّا وَعَلَانِيَةً يَرْجُونَ تِجَارَةً لَّن تَبُورَ (29)

-> We can see here that Allah is describing the belief in Him as we are tradesman who want to trade and end up with profit, so those tradesmen need to do the following to really profit: NUMBER 1: recite the Book of Allah , NUMBER 2 : keep up prayer NUMBER 3: spend out of what We have given them secretly and openly ie, giving money to the poor, and this tradesmen hoping: hope for a gain which will not perish. , but can you see that reading the Quran was NUMBER 1?, also where the hadith of the prophet in there if it was divine as the Sunni and Shia are lying to us?


Then We have given the Book for inheritance to such of Our Servants as We have chosen: but there are among them some who wrong their own souls; some who follow a middle course; and some who are, by Allah's leave, foremost in good deeds; that is the highest Grace.

[The Quran , 35:32]

ثُمَّ أَوْرَثْنَا الْكِتَابَ الَّذِينَ اصْطَفَيْنَا مِنْ عِبَادِنَا فَمِنْهُمْ ظَالِمٌ لِّنَفْسِهِ وَمِنْهُم مُّقْتَصِدٌ وَمِنْهُمْ سَابِقٌ بِالْخَيْرَاتِ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ ذَلِكَ هُوَ الْفَضْلُ الْكَبِيرُ (32)

-> This verse is very important, it divides the believers into 3 groups in the judgment day, but I will not discuss this in detail for now, however I would love to discuss this verse in great details later inshaallah in another comment, the main important point I want to mention here is, the people who never saw the prophet , ONLY INHERTITED the Quran : Then We have given the Book for inheritance to such of Our Servants as We have chosen , i.e. we only have this evidence in our hand


I swear By the obvious Book

[The Quran , 44:2]

وَالْكِتَابِ الْمُبِينِ (2)

-> A small verse that Allah is swearing with the obvious Quran: I swear By the obvious Book , i.e. it is obvious that it is from Allah, hence we can trust it blindly.


Ramadan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also signs for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong)�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢�?????�????�???�??�?�¢?�?????�????�???�??�?�¬�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¦�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¢�?????�????�???�??�?�¢?�?????�????�???�??�?�¬�??????�?????�????�???�??�?�¦

[The Quran , 2:185]

شَهْرُ رَمَضَانَ الَّذِيَ أُنزِلَ فِيهِ الْقُرْآنُ هُدًى لِّلنَّاسِ وَبَيِّنَاتٍ مِّنَ الْهُدَى وَالْفُرْقَانِ ..... (185)

-> In this verse a popular one in the Quran , Allah is telling us that He revealed the Quran in the month of Ramadan : Ramadan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qur'an, , and why Allah sent the Quran down: as a guide to mankind, also signs for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong) , very clear verse about the importance of the Quran. I'd like to add that on the aloners sect web site they falsely claim that Shahr means Moon or Full Moon , something on that weird line, this will be another comment on FI to expose their ignorance inshaallah, please stay tuned for that one


Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy.

[The Quran , 4:82]

أَفَلاَ يَتَدَبَّرُونَ الْقُرْآنَ وَلَوْ كَانَ مِنْ عِندِ غَيْرِ اللّهِ لَوَجَدُواْ فِيهِ اخْتِلاَفًا كَثِيرًا (82)

-> This is the verse that the enemy of Islam are obsessed with, I brought it here, because it tells us a very important note, it tells us, if this Quran was made by any other source, we would have find it full of corruptions or discrepancies, Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy. , this really means that any other book or hadith may be corrupt or full of discrepancies if Allah was not the Author of it. in fact many of the hadith narrated by many people and relating to the prophet are corrupted and full of discrepancies.


When the Qur'an is read, listen to it with attention, and hold your peace: that ye may receive Mercy.

[The Quran , 7:204]

وَإِذَا قُرِىءَ الْقُرْآنُ فَاسْتَمِعُواْ لَهُ وَأَنصِتُواْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُرْحَمُونَ (204)

-> In this verse Allah is advising us, when the Quran is read we should listen WITH ATTENTION as well hold our peace, When the Qur'an is read, listen to it with attention, and hold your peace: , why?, because : that ye may receive Mercy. , where is the hadith of the prophet in here?


We have given thee seven of the oft-repeated (verses) and the great Qur'an.

[The Quran , 15:87]

وَلَقَدْ آتَيْنَاكَ سَبْعًا مِّنَ الْمَثَانِي وَالْقُرْآنَ الْعَظِيمَ (87)

-> In this small verse Allah is telling prophet Mohammed that He has given him THE GREAT QURAN : We have given thee seven of the oft-repeated (verses) and the great Qur'an. , why it is great? Because it is the only guidance that we were asked to follow. Following what was mentioned in the Quran but was never explained like Salat must be referred to the prophet explanation as the Quran told us.


Verily this Qur'an doth guide to that which is most right (or stable), and giveth the Glad Tidings to the Believers who work deeds of righteousness, that they shall have a magnificent reward;

[The Quran , 17:9]

إِنَّ هَذَا الْقُرْآنَ يِهْدِي لِلَّتِي هِيَ أَقْوَمُ وَيُبَشِّرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ الَّذِينَ يَعْمَلُونَ الصَّالِحَاتِ أَنَّ لَهُمْ أَجْرًا كَبِيرًا (9)

-> Here, we see that knowing the Quran very well will lead to : Verily this Qur'an doth guide to that which is most right (or stable) and giveth the Glad Tidings to the Believers who work deeds of righteousness , and if we comply : that they shall have a magnificent reward;


We have explained (things) in various (ways) in this Qur'an, in order that they may receive admonition, but it only increases their flight (from the Truth)!

[The Quran , 17:41]

وَلَقَدْ صَرَّفْنَا فِي هَذَا الْقُرْآنِ لِيَذَّكَّرُواْ وَمَا يَزِيدُهُمْ إِلاَّ نُفُورًا (41)

-> This verse confirms again that Allah : We have explained (things) in various (ways) in this Qur'an, in order that they may receive admonition, , however the wicked humans will : but it only increases their flight (from the Truth)! .


And We put coverings over their hearts (and minds) lest they should understand the Qur'an, and deafness into their ears: when thou dost commemorate thy Lord and Him alone in the Qur'an, they turn on their backs, fleeing (from the Truth).

[The Quran , 17:46]

وَجَعَلْنَا عَلَى قُلُوبِهِمْ أَكِنَّةً أَن يَفْقَهُوهُ وَفِي آذَانِهِمْ وَقْرًا وَإِذَا ذَكَرْتَ رَبَّكَ فِي الْقُرْآنِ وَحْدَهُ وَلَّوْاْ عَلَى أَدْبَارِهِمْ نُفُورًا (46)

-> And for the wicked , deaf and blind, this is why they will never understand the Quran and they will keep detesting it until they die then they will have the big surprise, there will be no return, they have to take what they earned after rejecting the warning and be patient with the punishment if they can, let's see why they will never understand it: And We put coverings over their hearts (and minds) lest they should understand the Qur'an, and deafness into their ears , and these wicked people when they hear the name of Allah mentioned alone in his book: when thou dost commemorate thy Lord and Him alone in the Qur'an, they turn on their backs, fleeing (from the Truth). , why Allah said His name alone in the Quran ?, he never said His name and His prophet name as He many times said, Obey Allah and His Prophet, this is a verse that we need to discuss in details inshaallah


And We have explained to man, in this Qur'an, every kind of similitude: yet the greater part of men refuse (to receive it) except with ingratitude!

[The Quran , 17:89]

وَلَقَدْ صَرَّفْنَا لِلنَّاسِ فِي هَذَا الْقُرْآنِ مِن كُلِّ مَثَلٍ فَأَبَى أَكْثَرُ النَّاسِ إِلاَّ كُفُورًا (89)

-> In here we read new information about the Quran, that Allah explained every kind of similitude in our life needed to prosper in this test: And We have explained to man, in this Qur'an, every kind of similitude: , but the dumb, deaf and blind still : yet the greater part of men refuse (to receive it) except with ingratitude! , the verse clearly says that the majority of people will reject the Quran,we can see this clearly, can't we?


We have explained in detail in this Qur'an, for the benefit of mankind, every kind of similitude: but man is, in most things, contentious.

[The Quran , 18:54]

وَلَقَدْ صَرَّفْنَا فِي هَذَا الْقُرْآنِ لِلنَّاسِ مِن كُلِّ مَثَلٍ وَكَانَ الْإِنسَانُ أَكْثَرَ شَيْءٍ جَدَلًا (54)

-> The fact mentioned in 17:89 was confirmed again in here: We have explained in detail in this Qur'an, for the benefit of mankind, every kind of similitude , but again : but man is, in most things, contentious. , well, I have seen many of these men on the Internet., it should be noted that Allah never mentioned the hadith of the prophet in these two verses as a source to find any explanation we need, He only mentioned His Quran.


Then the Messenger will say: "O my Lord! Truly my people took this Qur'an for just foolish nonsense."

[The Quran , 25:30]

وَقَالَ الرَّسُولُ يَا رَبِّ إِنَّ قَوْمِي اتَّخَذُوا هَذَا الْقُرْآنَ مَهْجُورًا (30)

-> This is a very good verse, Allah is telling us that the prophet on the judgment day will tell Allah that the BELIEVERS The Prophet followers has ignored the Quran:, Then the Messenger will say: O my Lord! Truly my people took this Qur'an for just foolish nonsense. , what a strong message from the prophet regarding the Quran this was.


We send down (stage by stage) in the Qur'an that which is a healing and a mercy to those who believe: to the unjust it causes nothing but loss after loss.

[The Quran , 17:82]

وَنُنَزِّلُ مِنَ الْقُرْآنِ مَا هُوَ شِفَاء وَرَحْمَةٌ لِّلْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَلاَ يَزِيدُ الظَّالِمِينَ إَلاَّ خَسَارًا (82)

-> The verse states that the Quran will heal the true believes in it We send down (stage by stage) in the Qur'an that which is a healing and a mercy to those who believe but for the wicked to the unjust it causes nothing but loss after loss. , what a big difference that is.


And to recite the Qur'an: and if any accept guidance, they do it for the good of their own souls, and if any stray, say: "I am only a Warner"

[The Quran , 27:92]

وَأَنْ أَتْلُوَ الْقُرْآنَ فَمَنِ اهْتَدَى فَإِنَّمَا يَهْتَدِي لِنَفْسِهِ وَمَن ضَلَّ فَقُلْ إِنَّمَا أَنَا مِنَ الْمُنذِرِينَ (92)

-> Allah is telling Mohammad here to use the Quran to guide the people and whoever will believe in it and if they believe they they will do it for their own good: And to recite the Qur'an: and if any accept guidance, they do it for the good of their own souls , but if we do not listen then all the prophet has to say that he is only a warner: and if any stray, say: I am only a Warner , NO COMPULSIONS IN ISLAM.


verily We have propounded for men, in this Qur'an every kind of Parable: But if thou bring to them any Sign, the Unbelievers are sure to say, "Ye do nothing but talk vanities."

[The Quran , 30:58]

وَلَقَدْ ضَرَبْنَا لِلنَّاسِ فِي هَذَا الْقُرْآنِ مِن كُلِّ مَثَلٍ وَلَئِن جِئْتَهُم بِآيَةٍ لَيَقُولَنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا إِنْ أَنتُمْ إِلَّا مُبْطِلُونَ (58)

-> This is a very good verse, because it is a similitude to something we see a lot online. Every time I show the Quran detesters a miracle in it, they say I'm talking rubbish, let's see this fact in the verse that it started with the following: we will find every kind of Parable in the Quran: verily We have propounded for men, in this Qur'an every kind of Parable: But if thou bring to them any Sign, the Unbelievers are sure to say, "Ye do nothing but talk vanities." , can you note this bit ? But if thou bring to them any Sign, the Unbelievers are sure to say, "Ye do nothing but talk vanities. , exactly as we see online.


I swear by the Quran full of wisdom

[The Quran , 36:2]

وَالْقُرْآنِ الْحَكِيمِ (2)

-> in here Allah is swearing again with the Quran that is full of wisdom I swear by the Quran full of wisdom , Allah never told us that hadith of the prophet is full of wisdom because He never mentioned the hadith of the prophet from the first place.


We have put forth for men, in this Qur'an every kind of Parable, in order that they may receive admonition.

[The Quran , 39:27]

وَلَقَدْ ضَرَبْنَا لِلنَّاسِ فِي هَذَا الْقُرْآنِ مِن كُلِّ مَثَلٍ لَّعَلَّهُمْ يَتَذَكَّرُونَ (27)

-> Again : have put forth for men, in this Qur'an every kind of Parable, in order that they may receive admonition. , see all what we need to receive admonition IS IN THE QURAN, it was never said IN THE QURAN and THE HADITH of the prophet


Say ye: We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."

[The Quran , 2:136]

قُولُواْ آمَنَّا بِاللّهِ وَمَآ أُنزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالأسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَى وَعِيسَى وَمَا أُوتِيَ النَّبِيُّونَ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ لاَ نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ (136)

-> This verse will show you how most Muslims are flawed regarding their excessive praise to Mohammad, in this verse Allah is talking to the believers and is telling them to say : Say ye: We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: , and THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO THE BELIEVERS IS : We make no difference between one and another of them , can you see how most Muslims are flawed?, well they differentiate between the prophets, in fact it seems that they only care about Mohammad and never even think about the other prophets listed in the above verse, it is clear that Allah is telling the believers not to make any difference between one and another of the prophets, the above law is also repeated in another 3 locations in the Quran


The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His messengers. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His messengers." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."

[The Quran , 2:258]

آمَنَ الرَّسُولُ بِمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْهِ مِن رَّبِّهِ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ كُلٌّ آمَنَ بِاللّهِ وَمَلآئِكَتِهِ وَكُتُبِهِ وَرُسُلِهِ لاَ نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّن رُّسُلِهِ وَقَالُواْ سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا غُفْرَانَكَ رَبَّنَا وَإِلَيْكَ الْمَصِيرُ (285)

-> Again the same advice from Allah that the believers should : make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His messengers. , but most Muslims do by raising Mohammad to a level that is higher than all the rest of all the other prophets, you have seen it very well I'm sure


Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam)."

[The Quran , 3:84]

قُلْ آمَنَّا بِاللّهِ وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالأَسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَى وَعِيسَى وَالنَّبِيُّونَ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ لاَ نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ (84)

-> Again and again, the same law to : make no distinction between one and another among them , well most Muslims failed drastically regarding this important law.

There is no doubt that the Quran is the only guidance and was the only tool the prophet used to call the people to the way of Allah, when we obey him we will be obeying Allah alone, because Mohammad only brought to us what Allah taught him then ordered him to deliver it to us, if any of the laws mentioned in the Quran were not explained like Salat then we must go back to the to the prophet hadith because he has to be the only source to follow in something vital like the Salat, and by doing so we complied by Allah law that the prophet should have taught us things that we didn't know before in addition to Al Kitab wa Al Hikmah, those things were not invented by Mohammad or I should say, it was invented by him but only as guided by Allah and His Quran

To be continued......

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Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Sat 28 Jul, 2007 8:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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AhmedBahgat
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Quote:
Verily in the Apostle of Allah you have the best example for everyone who looks forward towards Allah and the Day of judgment (xxxiii. 21).


Well Mohammad was not unique in here, Ibrahim and many others were best examples to us as well:

4: Indeed, there is for you a good example in Ibrahim and those with him when they said to their people: Surely we are clear of you and of what you serve besides Allah; we declare ourselves to be clear of you, and enmity and hatred have appeared between us and you forever until you believe in Allah alone-- but not in what Ibrahim said to his father: I would certainly ask forgiveness for you, and I do not control for you aught from Allah-- Our Lord! on Thee do we rely, and to Thee do we turn, and to Thee is the eventual coming:
.
6: Certainly there is for you in them a good example, for him who fears Allah and the last day; and whoever turns back, then surely Allah is the Self-sufficient, the Praised.

[The Quran ; 60:4&6]

قَدْ كَانَتْ لَكُمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ إِذْ قَالُوا لِقَوْمِهِمْ إِنَّا بُرَءَاؤاْ مِنكُمْ وَمِمَّا تَعْبُدُونَ مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ كَفَرْنَا بِكُمْ وَبَدَا بَيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَكُمُ الْعَدَاوَةُ وَالْبَغْضَاء أَبَدًا حَتَّى تُؤْمِنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَحْدَهُ إِلَّا قَوْلَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ لِأَبِيهِ لَأَسْتَغْفِرَنَّ لَكَ وَمَا أَمْلِكُ لَكَ مِنَ اللَّهِ مِن شَيْءٍ رَّبَّنَا عَلَيْكَ تَوَكَّلْنَا وَإِلَيْكَ أَنَبْنَا وَإِلَيْكَ الْمَصِيرُ (4)
لَقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِيهِمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الْآخِرَ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ الْغَنِيُّ الْحَمِيدُ (6)

-> See : Indeed, there is for you a good example in Ibrahim and those with him , then was confirmed in 60:6 and was said the same way it was said about the prophet in 33:21 presented by mister Muslim: Certainly there is for you in them a good example, for him who fears Allah and the last day , WHAT ELSE I HAVE TO SAY TO EXPOSE THE IGNRONACE OF THAT MAN?

Quote:
It is only from the Holy Qur'an and the authentic record of the Ahadith that we can obtain full view of this model.


This flawed statement has been refuted with my long comment above regarding what the Quran says about itself.

Quote:
Thus, next to the Holy Qur'an the Hadith is the second source of the Islamic Law of social and personal behaviour,


If that hadith or whatever is called contradicts the Quran like in the case of apostasy then it must be lie and has to be thrown in the rubbish bin.

Quote:
because the commandments of the Holy Prophet are as binding on the believers as the Commands of Allah.


Sounds like shirk to me, oh yeh the prophet was ordered by Allah to forbade what was lawful to him to please one of his wives.

Quote:
Whenever Allah and the Apostle have decided a matter, it is not for a faithful man or woman to follow a course of their own choice (xxxiii. 36).


Yeh that is right, but only when we are sure 100% that the prophet decided on such matters, not bloody believe people that we don't know like Abdullah, Ikrima, and Bukhari that the prophet has done so, we can believe them if what they allege DO NOT CONTRADICT WHAT ALLAH SAID.

Quote:
Some of the misguided people suggest that the commands of the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) were valid only during his lifetime,


Well we can accept it from the heresay BUT ONLY IF IT DOES NOT CONTRADICT THE QURAN YOU BUNCH OF FOOL MUSHRIKOON

Quote:
and that now when he is no more amongst us, we need follow only the injunctions of the Holy Qur'an and treat the Hadith as an account of the past which has some allusions to the life of the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him), having no practical value as a code of life.


We don't say that you manipulative lair, we only say THE HERESAY HADITH CAN'T BE VALID IF IT CONTRADICTS THE QURAN, that should be very easy for a child to understand

Let me say this, Islam don't need enemies when we have such people like Muslim and his followers who say the above crap.

Quote:
These so-called pseudo-reformers little realise that a denial of the eternal validity of the Sunnah amounts to a denial of the Holy Qur'an's claim that the prophethood of Muhammad (may peace be upon him) is not time-bound; it is universal and the Prophet's words and deeds are the timeless expression of the Will of Allah.




jinn in a bottle wrote:
Hadith are no more hearsay than the Qur'an is,


Of course, however miss smart, we are only required to believe in the Quran, we are not required to believe in your heresay hadith.

jinn in a bottle wrote:
with its chain of narration,


The Quran has no chain of narration, I don't read it in the Quran as I read it in the heresay hadith

jinn in a bottle wrote:
where the first person heard Mohammed say the verse, memorised it, then told it to the next person in the chain who memorised it, passed it on to another, etc.


Miss smart, yes it happened as you described it however did you forget that Allah was in charge of collecting it? i.e. He made the people involved to do as such, read my comment above again and you should know where you have been blinded

jinn in a bottle wrote:
It is absolutely necessary to accept the validity of the Sunnah,


Did Allah tell us that He will be in charge of collecting the hadith?

No, so you have no bloody point.

jinn in a bottle wrote:
because, common sense says that Mohammed gave extra-Qur'anic directions to his followers on everyday life issues.


Exactly miss smart, extra QURANIC directions, I bloody E., IT MUST COMPLY WITH THE QURAN, now let me ask ya, is stoning the adulterers an extra QURANIC directions?

jinn in a bottle wrote:
These pronouncements were even written down in his lifetime, and vast collections were compiled and carefully studied for corroboration, uprightness of character of the narrators, etc. Are we just going to discard the things Mohammed said and did?! How can we?!


It is not what he said miss smart, it is what alleged that he said, however to answer your Tom and Jerry question that is puzzling you, it is very simple darling, just disregard the crap if it contradicts the Quran, how bloody simple is that to do?, well if the shirk is rooted I reckon it is going to be damn hard, isn't Satan a clever jinn. He never fails to impress me indeed.

jinn in a bottle wrote:
The Qur'an says that Mohammed is the example we must follow.


Please don't parrot and give me a headache, You have no point as I have proved earlier, The Quran also told us the exact same about IBRAHIM AND MANY OTHER RIGHTEOUS PEOPLE, you are nothing but a programmed ignorant.

jinn in a bottle wrote:
How can we do that if we don't know what he did? The Qur'an says that we must not forbid what Mohammed has allowed


Oh yeh, the same Quran told us that Mohammad forbade what Allah allowed,

Is Mohammed your god and you don't know it or something?, it is a possibility btw

jinn in a bottle wrote:
and not allow what Mohammed has forbidden.


But Allah told us that Mohammad was wrong when he forbade something that Allah allowed, now you want me to even take what the people say about him that he allowed or forbade?, are you that confused?

jinn in a bottle wrote:
How can we be sure we're doing the right thing if we ignore the pronouncements Mohammed made in case examples and the extra material


Certainly if we follow the heresay about him which clearly contradict the Quran must not be right, don't you bloody agree on that?

jinn in a bottle wrote:
that helps explain the Qur'an and its meanings?


Oh yah., explaining the Quran by telling us the opposite if what it says, are you confused mate or what?

How old are you, may I ask?

jinn in a bottle wrote:
You are indeed being extreme in your approach and I am afraid for you,


Of course I have to be at the most extreme, I finally had enough of all the BS by the confused and mushrik Muslims, I have to be extreme and tough this is the only way now to confront their flaw, their confusion, their shirk, their BS, their lies, their submission to Satan, and most importantly their hijacking to the great teaching of this great religion as documented and preserved in the Quran, you don't need to fear for me because I fear no one but Allah, I'm going to wage all war at you guys till the day I die comes, you will need to kill me to shut me up, this is the only way for you to continue your shirk and distortion to this great religion. No retreat and no surrender, what will happen to me is what Allah will allow to happen to me in this life or in the after life, I have nothing to fear but Him alone and of course standing for His Quran honestly and sincerely can never be something wrong, He must know if I'm as such and that is enough and satisfactory for me, I really care less what you all guys think, I have committed myself and this is what I will continue to do for the rest of my life.

jinn in a bottle wrote:
because by discarding these sahih ahadith, you are disregarding the word of Mohammed and thus the word of Allah.


Sahih, oh yeh it was Sahih that the prophet slept with his wives in one night without having a bath in between, oh yeh it was him who gave a metaphor of a human making sujood to another human, you know that heresay hadith about the wife if being ordered to do sujood to a human but Allah, she should have done it to her husband?

How come a great prophet gives such flawed metaphor?, isn't Allah is the only one we are ordered to do sujood for?, aren't the man and woman equal in the sight of Allah?

All these flawed teaching passed to us in the form of heresay hadith were stolen form the Jews and Christians corrupt beliefs even the word AMEEN that the Muslims say in there salat at the end of Sura Al Fatiha is stolen from them, open the Quran and you will see that the word is not there. The heresay hadith IS THE ONLY WAY IN FOR SATAN, he can't do it with the Quran, he knows very well what to do and his way in through the heresay hadith is a fitnah (a test) for the believers and the unbelievers equally

Salam

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Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Sat 28 Jul, 2007 8:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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AhmedBahgat
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jinn in a bottle wrote:
Just because Sunnah is the second-most important source on Islam doesn't mean it is invalid. If it contradicts the Qur'an, then it is not a good hadith, but nothing in the Sahih collections contradict the Qur'an, [/color]



Hello

You are very confused indeed, it seems it is rooted in you, well, you just contradicted yourself above,

The Quran tells us, whip the adulterers 100 lashes in public (no comapssion should be offered) and a group of believers must witness their punishment.


The heresay hadith tells us the Quran only means those who are not married so the punishment mentioned in it does not apply to the married ones, as for the married ones they must be killed.

can everyone see how Jinn is confused?, well she is following blindly some non sense that the words Zani and Zania mean the adulterers who are not married, while in Arabic this is a clear cut lie, Zani and Zania mean any adulterer REGARDLESS martial status

what puzzles me that her heresay hadith told us that the prophet declined to include the stoning verse in the Quran but Jinn in a bottle thinks that those hadith are lies and she does not accept them as truthful, this should lead to the following possibilties regarding the stoning punishment:

1) The prophet modified Allah words on his own.
2) Allah aborgated the stoning verse, if a verse is abbrogated by Allah then it should never be included in the Quran, this is the only concept of abbrogation I may accept, i won't accept the other silly concept of verses abrogating others and both are included in the Quran, this makes no sense.
3) The stoning was never a punishment in Islam.

Obviously possibilty 1 can not be valid. so we end with the other two possibilitues and in eiether case it means one thing only, it means there is no stoning any more

Salam

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Post subject: Reply with quote  

Nice sharing


Hadith Abu Dawud
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