Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject: Messengers for all?
AhmedBahgat wrote:
there will be no escape from the god being cruel or merciful... most humans will not believe in Islam.
God knows what is going to happen exactly, the bottom line is this, if Allah exits then a large number of people must reside in Hell, that is what He said and I believe it.
Hassan. wrote:
There are so many things Ahmad... so many things that don't make sense to me.
Salam Hassan
Of course a non believer must see the religions non sensible, on the other hand I actually tried hard to see one clear cut non sense in the religion of Islam through the Quran teachings and I could not find any in over 25 years, at the end of the day, neither my finding should underestimate yours nor yours should underestimate mine, what we can do is simply live in peace as humans and leave the faith judgment to God (if He exists), i.e. you don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t have to explain your disbelief nor I have to explain my belief, we can talk music, politics, women and sex, sport etc etc, in these sorts of discussions there will be no pressure on anyone of us, I can feel the pressure more on you than myself to be honest.
Hassan. wrote:
I used to just say well God will explain...
He did explain everything we need to pass the test, He also repeated the explanation through (at least) three huge messages through 3 great prophets, well, what else we can ask for?, oh yeh for Him to appear to us so we believe, well don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t worry it will happen according to His words, however when it happens it is going to be too late for many.
Hassan. wrote:
but I just can't accept that anymore...
You can????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t accept that Allah explained His message while you failed to see it?
Well I can accept that you failed to see the message, in fact I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢m 500% sure that many won????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t see it, in fact if all manage to see it then the Quran message have a few contradictions and on that account, it will be enough for me to convert to atheism and be the only atheist in the world.
Hassan. wrote:
I'm afarid that - unlike you - I can't believe it any longer.
You don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t have to be afraid now, you still have your freewill, what you need to be afraid of, is the JD if Allah exists.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
there is only one religion that is correct, it is the true religion of Moses, the true religion of Jesus, the true religion of Mohammad and sure the true religion of all other true messengers sent from the one and only God, they all one message for one religion, the religion of the one God
Hassan. wrote:
Now this is one of the many things that just doesn't make sense.
Why don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t you list for me all the things in the Quran that you think make no sense?, and when I say make no sense, I means 100% non sensible, if it has 1% sense in it then I will dismiss it.
Hassan. wrote:
I know that Islam says God sent many prophets - but the only ones we know the names of are these:
Where did you know that from?
Hassan. wrote:
Adam
Ibrahim
Al-Yas
Ayub
Dawoud
Dhul-Kifl
Harun
Hud
Idris
Iliyas
Isa
Ishaq
Ismail
Lut
Musa
Nuh
Salih
Shuaib
Sulaiman
Uzair
Yaqub
Yahya
Yunas
Yusuf
Zakariya
Muhammad
But you also conceded that Allah sent many prophets other than those ones, so what is your point exacky?
Hassan. wrote:
Where did God send all of them?
Well, the Quran didn????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t say the locality for every one of those prophets and messengers mentioned above, so you still have no point, but certainly if you conceded that Allah sent many other messengers and prophets without telling us about them, then it is quite possible that those unknown ones were sent to every place on the whole planet, can you unqualify that as 100% non sensible?
Hassan. wrote:
To different parts of the world?
Quite possible, this is because Allah told us that He sent many other prophets and messengers but He descided not to tell us their stories, i.e. it can not be proved beyond any doubt that He did not send other prophets and messengers to every spot on earth where people existed.
Hassan. wrote:
To all the nations and tribes in every corner of the globe?
Of course it is quite possible if He told us that He sent many other messengers and prophets without telling their stories, you already conceded this fact, so how do you know that He didn????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t send messengers and prophets to every nation and tribe in every corner of the globe?, in fact this is what He told us exactly:
Surely We have sent you with the truth as a bearer of good news and a warner; and there is not a nation but a warner has gone among them. [The Quran ; ]
إِنَّا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ بِالْحَقِّ بَشِيرًا وَنَذِيرًا وَإِن مِّنْ أُمَّةٍ إِلَّا خلَا فِيهَا نَذِيرٌ (24)
-> See, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? وَإِن مِّنْ أُمَّةٍ إِلَّا خلَا فِيهَا نَذِيرٌ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, i.e. ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? and there is not a nation but a warner has gone among them.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
This fact of sending a warner to every nation is confirmed in another location:
And certainly We raised in every nation a messenger saying: Serve Allah and shun the Shaitan. So there were some of them whom Allah guided and there were others against whom error was due; therefore travel in the land, then see what was the end of the rejecters. [The Quran ; 16:36]
وَلَقَدْ بَعَثْنَا فِي كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ رَّسُولاً أَنِ اعْبُدُواْ اللّهَ وَاجْتَنِبُواْ الطَّاغُوتَ فَمِنْهُم مَّنْ هَدَى اللّهُ وَمِنْهُم مَّنْ حَقَّتْ عَلَيْهِ الضَّلالَةُ فَسِيرُواْ فِي الأَرْضِ فَانظُرُواْ كَيْفَ كَانَ عَاقِبَةُ الْمُكَذِّبِينَ (36)
-> See, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? وَلَقَدْ بَعَثْنَا فِي كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ رَّسُولاً????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, i.e. ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? And certainly We raised in every nation a messenger????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, but look what all those messengers said in common :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? saying: Serve Allah and shun the Shaitan.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, this must make it One God hey, anyway, see how the people should react to all those repeated messages, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? So there were some of them whom Allah guided and there were others against whom error was due;????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, those whom Allah guided, WANTED SINCERELY TO BE GUIDED, and those whom Allah misguided, it was a case of due error against them, they do not want to be guided, they try to make the message non sensible, I thank Allah that I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢m not one of those, well I have to thank Him, He guided me after I knew well what He did to the previous nations who mocked His message which something I never did (mock his message), don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t we know well about Noah and the flood, Firon and the split of the sea, Gomorrah and the queers, Aad and their massive columns, well if we walk in the land we should find many archaeological evidences that confirm all those events beyond an atom weight of doubt, this is what Allah wants us to do: ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? therefore travel in the land, then see what was the end of the rejecters.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, why don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t you do that mister Hassan?
Finally, here is your concession that Allah sent many other messengers and prophets without telling us their stories:
164: And (We sent) messengers We have mentioned to you before and messengers we have not mentioned to you; and to Musa, Allah addressed His Word, speaking (to him)
165: (We sent) messengers as the givers of good news and as warners, so that people should not have a plea against Allah after the (coming of) messengers; and Allah is Mighty, Wise. [The Quran ; 4:164-165]
وَرُسُلاً قَدْ قَصَصْنَاهُمْ عَلَيْكَ مِن قَبْلُ وَرُسُلاً لَّمْ نَقْصُصْهُمْ عَلَيْكَ وَكَلَّمَ اللّهُ مُوسَى تَكْلِيمًا (164)
رُّسُلاً مُّبَشِّرِينَ وَمُنذِرِينَ لِئَلاَّ يَكُونَ لِلنَّاسِ عَلَى اللّهِ حُجَّةٌ بَعْدَ الرُّسُلِ وَكَانَ اللّهُ عَزِيزًا حَكِيمًا (165)
-> See, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? وَرُسُلاً قَدْ قَصَصْنَاهُمْ عَلَيْكَ مِن قَبْلُ وَرُسُلاً لَّمْ نَقْصُصْهُمْ عَلَيْكَ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, i.e. ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? And (We sent) messengers We have mentioned to you before and messengers we have not mentioned to you????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, i.e. Allah sent many other messengers but He never told us their stories, now why you think that those messengers didn????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t cover every spot on the globe where people lived?, well let me totally slam dunk your argument even if you can prove that some people never received any messages from Allah, see what the next verse says:
-> See, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????رُّسُلاً مُّبَشِّرِينَ وَمُنذِرِينَ لِئَلاَّ يَكُونَ لِلنَّاسِ عَلَى اللّهِ حُجَّةٌ بَعْدَ الرُّسُلِ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, i.e. ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? (We sent) messengers as the givers of good news and as warners, so that people should not have a plea against Allah after the (coming of) messengers????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, CLEAR AS LIGHT, i.e. THOSE WHO NEVER RECEIVED A MESSENGERS CAN HAVE A PLEA WITH ALLAH ON THE JD (He knows them of course), you are not one of them bro nor myself for that matter neither any boy and girl on this web site who heard the message, I bloody E. non of us can have a plea that we didn????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t receive the message, get ready bro for the shock of an eternal life on the JD
Hassan. wrote:
No
Even if NO, then those who never received a messenger can have a plea with Allah as 4:165 told us above, please read it in Arabic.
Hassan. wrote:
He sent EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM to..... the Middle East.
Hmmm, can you confirm that those mentioned in the Quran were sent to one location only?, and how big is the middle east please?, I mean can you get me a map with the boundaries of the middle east
Also you conceded that He sent many other messengers that he never told us their stories, and the Quran confirmed that too, so why you think that those unknown messengers did not cover the rest of places on earth where people lived?
And even if that is the case then they will be allowed to have a plea (Hujjah) with Allah, you on the other hand can not have one so toughy to you.
Hassan. wrote:
Don't you find that strange?
I do?
No I don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t find it strange rather 100% sensible, on the other hand, what I found very strange that you conceded that Allah sent other messengers without telling us their stories yet you concluded that those unknown messengers were also sent in the middle east, that is weird by you man
Hassan. wrote:
Why didn't God send prophets to Europe, China or America?
Before Islam, how do you know that He did not?, but as you know by now, if He did not and those people died without hearing the message then they can have a plea with Allah, you on the other hand can not.
Hassan. wrote:
(and if he did how come we have "lost" their teachings - or "corrupted them beyond all recognition" - I say that because some have claimed that Krishna, Ram and Buddha were prophets of Islam lol))
Well, that is why the last message is RESERVED BY HIM, makes great sense to me.
Hassan. wrote:
I can't explain it.
I did
Hassan. wrote:
Unless I consider the possibility that Islam (and the religions it is derived from Christianity and Judaism) are just ancient Middle Eastern cults - that have nothing to do with the the God of all mankind.
-> See, ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? وَرُسُلاً قَدْ قَصَصْنَاهُمْ عَلَيْكَ مِن قَبْلُ وَرُسُلاً لَّمْ نَقْصُصْهُمْ عَلَيْكَ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, i.e. ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? And (We sent) messengers We have mentioned to you before and messengers we have not mentioned to you????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????,
right messengers after messengers., Allah forgot to write the verse, "there will be messengers after Mr. PBUH., "
Ignorant, do you know what a messenger means first?
well, the Quran never said that Mohammad is the last messenger, why don't you you burry your pinhead in the sand for two hours?, well let me educate you ignorant, the Quran only said the Mohammad is the last Nabi (Prophet), it never said that he was the last Rasool, (Messenger)
so who is the idiot here?
well, let me give ya a hint, the only way to redeam your ignorant arse is to prove to us that Rassol = Nabi, how about that for a start?
Quote:
i.e. Allah sent many other messengers but He never told us their stories, now why you think that those messengers didn????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t cover every spot on the globe where people lived?, well let me totally slam dunk your argument even if you can prove that some people never received any messages from Allah, see what the next verse says: ....
yeezevee wrote:
I see here AhamedBahgat.. PBUH explaing THE SLAM DUNK.. THE SLAM DUNG??
yeezevee
no idiot, it's slam dunk, and sure I just slam dunked ya as well:
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
[quote="Hassan."]
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Salam Hassan
Hassan on FFI said:
Wa alaykum assalam Ahmad,
You honestly don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t find it strange that out of all the prophets (some say 124,000) the only evidence we have comes from the Middle East?
The only books of revelation we have ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? comes from the Middle East.
No mention of the stories of Abraham, Moses, the people of Israel, Jesus, Muhammad etc????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????¦ in Australia, China, America Europe or anywhere else.
You honestly don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t find that strange Ahmad?
What was the point of sending so many prophets to all corners of the world if their message was completely lost to the later (and far greater number) of people?
Why is there so much evidence in the Middle East supporting the Judeo-Christian-Islamic traditions?
But None elsewhere?
I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢m not on a mission to turn you away from Islam ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? I think it was you (or maybe someone else) that said a while ago that I must be here because I am searching. I thought about that and it is true. In many ways I am a thinking aloud rather than actually trying to tell anyone anything - I am a lost soul and I admit it ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? I have lost my faith and I am in a period of crisis and searching and trying to understand what the hell has happened to me ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? where I am spiritually and emotionally ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? and where I am going.
But the longer I discuss these things ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? either here or on Muslims sites ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? the more convinced I am that Islam is indeed just a man made religion.
The last place a Muslim who has lost his faith should go is on the internet ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? whether it be a Muslim site or one like this ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? as he will only be even more convinced that Islam is a man made religion.
I don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t think Muhammad was a liar or a charlatan ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? in fact I believe he was a good man ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? judged by his times ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? and revolutionised his society in many good and positive ways (again judged by the context). But I simply can no longer believe that what he experienced was God????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s words. I believe he was honest and genuinely believed he was receiving God????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s words ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? but that doesn????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t mean he actually did.
I have to make up my mind by the evidence in front of me and I simply cannot believe it. And the more I look ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? the more I cannot believe it.
I am not against Muslims Ahmad ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? Most of my family and friends are Muslims and I do not try to tell them to leave Islam. Nor do I share the aim of this website or many other people????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s hatred of Islam.
I come here simply to talk ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? and through that I am really exploring my own thoughts and feelings.
I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢d be interested to know why you are here Ahmad? _________________ http://free-islam.com
Posted:
Wed 04 Jul, 2007 4:13 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Salam Hassan
Wa alaykum assalam Ahmad,
Hassan. wrote:
You honestly don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t find it strange that out of all the prophets (some say 124,000) the only evidence we have comes from the Middle East?
Hey mate
of course I found it not strange, this is because I believe humans only started to exist on earth about 6000 years before Jesus was born, and sure humans must start on earth in a spot that is rich with resources, the middle east is best qualified, I read a book some than 20 years ago and about 2 years ago I tried to translate it, it was really a taunting task so I passed after translating the first chaphter, i will try to find it as I believe it has some info that relates to why I believe humans existed about 8000 years ago.
from the middle east they started to spread through the whole earth, for premetive communities in some remote places like australia, I believe Allah sent to them messengers too, I actaually read a book by Ahmed Deedat about 5 years ago and I believe there is a small paragraph in it about those premetive people in Australia and what they worshipped, I will try to find it as well. so it adds up perfectly on my side, nothing strange at all
Hassan. wrote:
The only books of revelation we have ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? comes from the Middle East.
I consider the Veda another book of revelation, it also say "God is one worship Him alone", and sure the Veda was not sent in the middle east
Hassan. wrote:
No mention of the stories of Abraham, Moses, the people of Israel, Jesus, Muhammad etc????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????¦ in Australia, China, America Europe or anywhere else.
mentioned in what exactly?,
Hassan. wrote:
You honestly don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t find that strange Ahmad?
why I have to be dishonest with you?
Hassan. wrote:
What was the point of sending so many prophets to all corners of the world if their message was completely lost to the later (and far greater number) of people?
I consider it as part of slowl educating the flawed humans which should result in taking them slowly to the biggest challenge of all which is to believe in the one God and all His messnegers and messages. the end was simply the last message, sort of the graduation, so it all adds up perfectly with me.
Hassan. wrote:
Why is there so much evidence in the Middle East supporting the Judeo-Christian-Islamic traditions?
Logically speaking, because it is the area where they started from.
Hassan. wrote:
But None elsewhere?
Over time, there will be every where, see the present is past in the future, i.e. in about 2000 years from now (if Allah wills) they will look back and say yeh there are mosques and churches in alaska and australia, so it is normal as far as the logical human progress on earth is concerned.
Hassan. wrote:
I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢m not on a mission to turn you away from Islam
No one can except Allah
Hassan. wrote:
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? I think it was you (or maybe someone else) that said a while ago that I must be here because I am searching.
Not me
Hassan. wrote:
I thought about that and it is true. In many ways I am a thinking aloud rather than actually trying to tell anyone anything -
well, everyone must put their brains to the proper use regading this important and tough issue.
Hassan. wrote:
I am a lost soul and I admit it
I believe all of us at one point of our lives experienced this feeling at least once
Hassan. wrote:
????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? I have lost my faith and I am in a period of crisis and searching and trying to understand what the hell has happened to me ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? where I am spiritually and emotionally ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? and where I am going.
good to hear, you need to work hard on that issue even if you are a believer
Hassan. wrote:
But the longer I discuss these things ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? either here or on Muslims sites ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? the more convinced I am that Islam is indeed just a man made religion.
Well, does not sound strange to me.
Hassan. wrote:
The last place a Muslim who has lost his faith should go is on the internet ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? whether it be a Muslim site or one like this ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? as he will only be even more convinced that Islam is a man made religion.
the above statement is contradictory and makes no sense
Hassan. wrote:
I don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t think Muhammad was a liar or a charlatan ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? in fact I believe he was a good man ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? judged by his times ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? and revolutionised his society in many good and positive ways (again judged by the context).
well, you can not confirm what you read about him (good or bad) unless it is confirmed in the Quran, other than this, human hearsay can not be admissable to judge a dead man, for me as a believer it is enough what Allah said about Him and what He orders him to say in the Quran, the Quran is the true hadith of Mohamed, please try to see how many times Allah ordered him TO SAY ....., SAY....., SAY....., can you count them?
Hassan. wrote:
But I simply can no longer believe that what he experienced was God????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s words. I believe he was honest and genuinely believed he was receiving God????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s words ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? but that doesn????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t mean he actually did.
sort of he was living a barbie world, right?
Hassan. wrote:
I have to make up my mind by the evidence in front of me and I simply cannot believe it. And the more I look ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? the more I cannot believe it.
Fine, I have no problem with that, why you think your disbeief will upset me as a believer?, in fact I appreciate that you are a decent and polite man when talking to the Muslims.
Hassan. wrote:
I am not against Muslims Ahmad ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? Most of my family and friends are Muslims and I do not try to tell them to leave Islam. Nor do I share the aim of this website or many other people????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s hatred of Islam.
sure, you said this many times and I can assure you that I read it as many, as well I can assure you that I believe you, what puzzles me is this: why you think that your disbelief should upset the Muslims?, in fact you are one of those kafirs that we are encouraged to treat well, I dont get it
Hassan. wrote:
I come here simply to talk ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢?? and through that I am really exploring my own thoughts and feelings.
Great to hear
Hassan. wrote:
I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢d be interested to know why you are here Ahmad?
While I would like to keep it for myself, I have no probs to share it with you publically, I also like talking to people but I don't like talking crap unless some will give me the crap, and this is might work perfectly with me, I get bored very quickly, so on this web site I can be many things if I want to, on my web site for example, I can only be one which gets a bit boring :*) , I like playing with the boys and girls in here, in fact I'm holding myself a bit back so I don't get banned, if they let me go nuts while assuring me a no ban, I will show you things you never seen before, :*) , well I guess it should help their mission agaisnt islam, that is what they keep saying, :*)
On a serious note, I like to always be updated with what the enemy of God say about Him and His signs, I read more than I reply, and when I reply it is another knoweldge gain for me.
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Post subject:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
yeezevee
all your crap above is dismissed, if you know the verse in the Quran that says Mohammad is the last Rasool, please post it, other than this you can keep banging your head on Wiking arse if that makes you excited and makes him horny
miss ruby of FFI said:
Ahmed this is the verse:
[33:40] Muhammad was not the father of any man among you. He was a messenger of GOD and the final prophet. GOD is fully aware of all things.
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Hello miss ruby
good that you are smarter than yeke, however you still failed to walk me through it, but because you have been a good girl lately I'm happy to do the walk through for you
see darling in the above verse it says Mohammad is Rasool Allah and KHATIM AL NABBIEEN,
i.e. the verse mentioned both together (Rasool and Nabi), the Quran differentiated between the two in very clear manner, this means not evey Nabi is a Rasool but every Rasool is a Nabi, now the verse never said that Mohammad is the last Rasool, it only said he is the last Nabi, if you want to see comelling proofs that a Nabi is different to a Rasool from the Quran, please let me know
now I'm not saying that there are other Rasools (sent) after Mohammad, I never seen one, however what I saw during my life that the message of Allah through Mohammad (the last Nabi) is reaching everyone with ease therefore I never seen any new messengers sent during my life so far nor I believe it is required, however before my existance I dont really know if Allah sent messengers to other people or not, what matters for me is simply the Quran never stated that Mohammad is the last messenger rather the last prophet, and because the quran treated a messenger different to a prophet then we can not really say that Mohammad is the last Rasool (messneger), however what we can claim with certainity that Mohammad is the last Nabi as 33:40 told us.
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Hello again miss ruby
let's look at the following verse:
And We did not send before you any messenger or prophet, but when he desired, the Shaitan made a suggestion respecting his desire; but Allah annuls that which the Shaitan casts, then does Allah establish His communications, and Allah is Knowing, Wise, [The Quran ; 22:52] وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن قَبْلِكَ مِن رَّسُولٍ وَلَا نَبِيٍّ إِلَّا إِذَا تَمَنَّى أَلْقَى الشَّيْطَانُ فِي أُمْنِيَّتِهِ فَيَنسَخُ اللَّهُ مَا يُلْقِي الشَّيْطَانُ ثُمَّ يُحْكِمُ اللَّهُ آيَاتِهِ وَاللَّهُ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ (52)
-> See what it clearly says: "وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن قَبْلِكَ مِن رَّسُولٍ وَلَا نَبِيٍّ", i.e. "And We did not send before you any messenger or prophet", CLEARLY THE NABI IS NOT LIKE A RASOOL, or what do you think?
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Post subject:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
i.e. the verse mentioned both together (Rasool and Nabi), the Quran differentiated between the two in very clear manner, this means not evey Nabi is a Rasool but every Rasool is a Nabi, now the verse never said that Mohammad is the last Rasool, it only said he is the last Nabi, if you want to see comelling proofs that a Nabi is different to a Rasool from the Quran, please let me know
iqram of FFI said:
Some guys among the Nabis are Rasool
in other words to be Rasool one has to be Nabi first.
If there is no Nabi after Muhammad, that automatically means there is no Rasool after him. . If not, then being a Rasool while not being a Nabi is possible. And that contradicts the boldened part. _________________ http://free-islam.com
Posted:
Wed 04 Jul, 2007 4:19 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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Post subject:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
i.e. the verse mentioned both together (Rasool and Nabi), the Quran differentiated between the two in very clear manner, this means not evey Nabi is a Rasool but every Rasool is a Nabi, now the verse never said that Mohammad is the last Rasool, it only said he is the last Nabi, if you want to see comelling proofs that a Nabi is different to a Rasool from the Quran, please let me know
iqram wrote:
Some guys among the Nabis are Rasool,
Yes
iqram wrote:
in other words to be Rasool one has to be Nabi first.
If there is no Nabi after Muhammad, that automatically means there is no Rasool after him. . If not, then being a Rasool while not being a Nabi is possible. And that contradicts the boldened part.
I actually accept your argument, it makes great sense, this is something that should shock the aloners on free-minds.org
now I concede that there is no messenger nor nabi after Mohammad, but that does not change my argument that those who did not receive a messenger will be able to have a plea with Allah acording to what He said in the Quran, i.e. the argument that Allah must send messengers to every spot on earth is invalidated by Him allowing those who will receive non to have a plea with Him
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AhmedBahgat wrote:
now I concede that there is no messenger nor nabi after Mohammad, but that does not change my argument that those who did not receive a messenger will be able to have a plea with Allah acording to what He said in the Quran, i.e. the argument that Allah must send messengers to every spot on earth is invalidated by Him allowing those who will receive non to have a plea with Him
got it?
iqram of FFI said:
Ya, but you say..according to quran, those who did not recieve a messenger could have a plea to Allah (accepted or not). Could you please refer where in quran?? _________________ http://free-islam.com
Posted:
Wed 04 Jul, 2007 4:20 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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Post subject:
iqram wrote:
Ya, but you say..according to quran, those who did not recieve a messenger could have a plea to Allah (accepted or not). Could you please refer where in quran??
I have already posted that verse to Hassan on this thread (I think) _________________ http://free-islam.com
Posted:
Wed 04 Jul, 2007 4:21 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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Post subject:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
AhmedBahgat says to yeezevee
Quote:
Ignorant, do you know what a messenger means first?
well, the Quran never said that Mohammad is the last messenger, why don't you you burry your pinhead in the sand for two hours?, well let me educate you ignorant, the Quran only said the Mohammad is the last Nabi (Prophet), it never said that he was the last Rasool, (Messenger)
so who is the idiot here?
And says to miss ruby
Hello miss ruby
good that you are smarter than yeke, however you still failed to walk me through it, but because you have been a good girl
and writes again to iqram
Quote:
now I concede that there is no messenger nor nabi after Mohammad, but that does not change my argument that those who did not receive a messenger will be able to have a plea with Allah acording to what He said in the Quran,
yeezevee of FFI said:
You Concede.. You Concede??
What did you say to me dear A_B., Did you call me yeke,
You "ROBOTIC RAG BRAINED ROGUISH RUFFUN"
you call me yeke??... next time .."yeezevee"..lol..
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LOL
So what you idiot you are yeezevee?
at least I'm a man with integrity who is after the truth even if from the malice kafirs, unlike the many I caugt here red handed in many mistakes and non had an atom weight of integrity to admit their mistakes
see punk, I'm like Micakel Schumakher, my mistakes are the least,
see it took a year and half to only catch me mistaken once, and when it is done I quickly conceded
this is what I call interity you punk, something you never had and never will _________________ http://free-islam.com
Posted:
Wed 04 Jul, 2007 4:25 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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Post subject:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
I have already posted that verse to Hassan on this thread (I think)
iqram of FFI said:
aa, found it 4:164~165.
Hmm, but that makes a problem. So, muslims should not propagate the words of quran or the teachings of Muhammad, to those who have never heared of them. I mean, you know, in todays world , muslims are less trusted. So, the ignorants (in Islamic sense) might get a better chance by remaining ignorant than being informed about Allah and his religion. (as it's terribly hard to believe in, even after being informed) _________________ http://free-islam.com
Posted:
Wed 04 Jul, 2007 4:26 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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Post subject:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
I have already posted that verse to Hassan on this thread (I think)
iqram wrote:
aa, found it 4:164~165.
Good, how did you miss it before?
iqram wrote:
Hmm, but that makes a problem.
To whom exactly?
iqram wrote:
So, muslims should not propagate the words of quran or the teachings of Muhammad,
we are not ordered to propagate the teaching of Mohammad, we are only ordered to propagate the Quran
iqram wrote:
to those who have never heared of them.
Regarding the Quran, of course of there is a chance of propagating it, they should do it, but with the current technology, I dont think it is a must, type Quran on google and see how many sites you will get.
iqram wrote:
I mean, you know, in todays world , muslims are less trusted.
this is BS, also in todays world the americans and the jews should not be trusted, at least the Muslims are scattered around the globe and most of them are going with their own day to day life, it is you after being manipulated you work hard to propagate your manipulations
iqram wrote:
So, the ignorants (in Islamic sense) might get a better chance by remaining ignorant than being informed about Allah and his religion. (as it's terribly hard to believe in, even after being informed)
what a silly excuse
well, you dont need a muslim (confused or not) to propagate the Quran to you, I'm sure you can not deny that, or can you? _________________ http://free-islam.com
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their teachings - or "corrupted them beyond all recognition" 
. If not, then being a Rasool while not being a Nabi is possible. And that contradicts the boldened part.
