I understand that somewhere in the Quran it says that if there is just ONE mistake in it then it is all false. Could someone clear my mind as to answer thread? Thanks.
What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
A. "Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
B. "We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
C. "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
D. "But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
E. "He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).
Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an?
A. "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).
B. "And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3).
C. "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful," (9:5).
D. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued," (9:29).
The first Muslim was Muhammad? Abraham? Jacob? Moses?
A. "And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam," (39:12).
B. "When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143).
C. "And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam," (2:132).
Does Allah forgive or not forgive those who worship false gods?
A. "Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).
B. "The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all, (6:115).
C. None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?" (2:106).
D. When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not," (16:101).
Was Pharaoh killed or not killed by drowning?
A. "We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam). (It was said to him): "Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)! This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!" (10:90-92).
B. Moses said, "Thou knowest well that these things have been sent down by none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening evidence: and I consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to be one doomed to destruction!" So he resolved to remove them from the face of the earth: but We did drown him and all who were with him," (17:102-103).
Is wine consumption good or bad?
A. O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper," (5:90).
B. (Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)?" (47:15).
C. Truly the Righteous will be in Bliss: On Thrones (of Dignity) will they command a sight (of all things): Thou wilt recognize in their faces the beaming brightness of Bliss. Their thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine sealed," (83:22-25).
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Posted:
Mon 30 Jul, 2007 12:45 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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Post subject:
Hello
Welcome to FI
Later today inshaallah I will look at your questions
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Post subject: Re: I need some help with this
ummmmm7 wrote:
I understand that somewhere in the Quran it says that if there is just ONE mistake in it then it is all false. Could someone clear my mind as to answer thread? Thanks.
Hello
I will divide my reply into 7 parts, here is the first part:
You said that you understand that somewhere in the Quran it says that if there is just ONE mistake in it then it is all false,
I say, what you understand is wrong, unfortunately many Muslims also understand it wrong as you do, let me bring the verse and walk you through it:
Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy. [The Quran , 4:82]
أَفَلاَ يَتَدَبَّرُونَ الْقُرْآنَ وَلَوْ كَانَ مِنْ عِندِ غَيْرِ اللّهِ لَوَجَدُواْ فِيهِ اخْتِلاَفًا كَثِيرًا (82)
-> Well, I can't see where in the verse above that it says there will be NO MISTAKES in the Quran, this is the verse the enemy of Islam use to attack Islam as well it is the same verse used by the confused Muslims who claim the Quran said there will be not even one mistake in it, I'm not saying the Quran has mistakes in it, in fact in over 25 years I found NONE, rather I'm opposing that the Quran said there won?????????????????????¢??t be ONE mistake in it, the verse above said : if the Quran Author is anyone but Allah, we would have found in it MUCH discrepancy, اخْتِلاَفًا كَثِيرًا , Ikhtilafan Kathira, and surely this does not deny Ikhtilafan Qalila, i.e. Not too much discrepancy, if the word Kathira which means A LOT OF is not in the verse and the words go like this: if the Quran Author is anyone but Allah, we would have found in it discrepancy, then I would have conceded that 4:82 means that we will never find a single mistake in the Quran but Allah included the word MUCH which should lead to that 4:82 never denied that we may find a few discrepancies in the Quran if the author is Allah.
The most important verse that must be discussed along with 4:82 is 3:7, , this is because it explains an important part of Allah plan with us during this life, let me bring it in here:
?????????????????????¢??He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: ?????????????????????¢??We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:?????????????????????¢?? and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
هُوَ الَّذِيَ أَنزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُّحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ في قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاء الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاء تَأْوِيلِهِ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلاَّ اللّهُ وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِّنْ عِندِ رَبِّنَا وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلاَّ أُوْلُواْ الألْبَابِ (7)
[The Quran ; 3:7]
Let me break it up to make it clearer, this is one of the most important messages in the Quran:
-> هُوَ الَّذِيَ أَنزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ, He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book, The Quran is referred to as Al Kitab, i.e. Al Kitab in the above verse means 100% Al Quran.
-> ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُّحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book:?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, Allah is saying to Mohammad and anyone who will read the Quran, in this book there are verses basics or fundamental of established meaning, logically speaking those are the verses that both the believers and the disbelievers will agree on their meanings.
-> وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ, others are allegorical, the other portion of the Quran verses are Mutashabihat verses, i.e. allegorical, i.e. hard to understand, i.e. it can cause confusion (not to the belief in Allah though) because it can have more than one meaning, this is not coincidence, it is part of the plan as Allah has just told us, He included those allegorical verses in the Quran, why He did that?, we don?????????????????????¢??t need to look any where, we only need to continue reading 3:7
-> فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ في قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاء الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاء تَأْوِيلِهِ , But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its meanings, , the objective of including those allegorical verses is revealed, those deliberately inserted verses are there to expose those in whose hearts is perversity (believers or not, it applies to all), because those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, and this is where all those alleged contradiction came from, those in whose hearts is perversity are trying hard to search for the meaning of those verses seeking discord, i.e. it is nothing but a test for them and a test for those who will follow them, we should see clearly that none of those alleged mistakes in this thread can ever be classified as a clear cut mistake, i.e. a mistake beyond an atom weight of doubt
-> ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلاَّ اللّهُ?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, here is the denial that NO ONE WILL KNOW THE MEANING OF THOSE ALLEGORICAL VERSES EXCEPT ALLAH.
-> ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِّنْ عِندِ رَبِّنَا?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: ?????????????????????¢??We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:?????????????????????¢???????????????????????¢??????????????????????, here is a new sentence started with a Waw, clearly means that the ones with knowledge will believe in both (the well established meaning and allegorical) verses as BOTH ARE FROM OUR GOD, clearly this indicates that understanding the meaning of those allegorical verses are not required by any believer, it will add to or take nothing from their belief if their belief is well established, if not then those shaky believers will follow the allegations by those in whose hearts is perversity who are seeking discord by speculating the meanings of those hard to understand verses.
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Post subject: Re: I need some help with this
ummmmm7 wrote:
What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
Hello
ummmmm7 wrote:
A. "Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
Wromg translation, the Alaq means something that is hanged on another thing, it has nothing to do with blood, and sure the statement in 96:2 is 100% accurate because the sperm clinges into the egg, i.e. the sperm Alaq into the egg
ummmmm7 wrote:
B. "We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
Allah is talking about Adam and yes this is how Adam was created, do you have any alternative to how the first human was created?
Again until you prove from where the first human was created the statement of the Quran can never be a mistake especially all the substances in the human body are found in the soil.
ummmmm7 wrote:
C. "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
That is 100% right, both Adam and Jesus were created with a miracle, one didn't have a mother and another didn't have a mother nor a father, i.e. both creation defy the norms, that is why Jesus is like Adam
ummmmm7 wrote:
D. "But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
That is right, Adam, you and me were created and before our creation we all were nothing, again the statement of the Quran is 100% accurate.
ummmmm7 wrote:
E. "He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).
Exactly, another accurate statement from the Quran
Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Thu 02 Aug, 2007 10:41 pm; edited 2 times in total
Posted:
Tue 31 Jul, 2007 12:48 pm
ummmmm7
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Thanks for my welcome.
Cheers but as it stands you've only answered 20% of the thread which was number 1. There's still a problem with understanding 2, 3, 4 and especially 5.
Posted:
Thu 02 Aug, 2007 12:01 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Post subject:
ummmmm7 wrote:
Thanks for my welcome.
Cheers but as it stands you've only answered 20% of the thread which was number 1. There's still a problem with understanding 2, 3, 4 and especially 5.
Hello
I stated that my reply will be in 7 parts, I'm currently busy with Tas-hih Al Bukhari article that I'm writing, there is no doubt that I will reply to the rest of your comment inshaallah
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Post subject: Re: I need some help with this
ummmmm7 wrote:
Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an?
Hello
I replied to this silly argument regarding sura 9 many times already, your problem that you don't want to understand that all those verses in sura 9 were specific to reclaiming the House of Allah (The Kabba), it has nothing to do with forcing the kafirs to believe, it makes no sense under Islam to force anyone to believe even the ones we love, let's look at the following verse:
Surely you cannot guide whom you love, but Allah guides whom He pleases, and He knows best the followers of the right way. [The Quran ; 28:56]
إِنَّكَ لَا تَهْدِي مَنْ أَحْبَبْتَ وَلَكِنَّ اللَّهَ يَهْدِي مَن يَشَاء وَهُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِالْمُهْتَدِينَ (56)
-> See, Surely you cannot guide whom you love, now if we can't guide whom we love , therefore, your argumen t that belivers should force unbelievers to believe has to be dismissed, indeed it is only Allah who guides whom He will but Allah guides whom He pleases and not just that, He also knows something no human will be able to know beyond an atom weight of doubt, He knows well who wants to be guided and He knows best the followers of the right way
This means verse 2:256 you posted is 100% accurate:
ummmmm7 wrote:
A. "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).
Being (you) not aware of 28:56 also means that your understanding to sura 9 is totally wrong, here is what you copied from others:
ummmmm7 wrote:
B. "And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3).
ummmmm7 wrote:
C. "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful," (9:5).
ummmmm7 wrote:
D. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued," (9:29).
Let me now show you how your understanding to sura 9 is totally wrong:
9:29 is related to a very well known incident regarding the Kabba, the Kabba was a place for all to come to worship God and also to do business (trading), even the Kafiroon used to go there and do whatever they planned to do, most people used to go around the Kabba as a method of worshipping the God, the Kafiroon also used to do a very indecent act, they used to do the Tawaf (going around the Kabba) naked, exactly like the filthy scenes we see in the Mardi Gras every year around the world. When Mohammad reclaimed the Kabba entering Mecca, this filthy act by the kafiroon had to stop, this is when these verses in Sura 9 was revealed (sure 9 is the last sura that was revealed which means it was revealed at the last days of Mohammad before he died, the the message is clear and it was to reclaim the Kabba the house of Allah and to free it from all these filthy acts by the kafiroon, looking at all the verses we should see the picture crystal clear, I will list the verses in English then the original language in Arabic, and my walkthrough will follow:
1- (This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His Messenger towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement.
2- So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers.
3- And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve.
4- Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).
5- So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
6- And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not.
7- How can there be an agreement for the idolaters with Allah and with His Messenger; except those with whom you made an agreement at the Sacred Mosque? So as long as they are true to you, be true to them; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty). [The Quran ; 9:1-7]
بَرَاءةٌ مِّنَ اللّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ إِلَى الَّذِينَ عَاهَدتُّم مِّنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ (1)
فَسِيحُواْ فِي الأَرْضِ أَرْبَعَةَ أَشْهُرٍ وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّكُمْ غَيْرُ مُعْجِزِي اللّهِ وَأَنَّ اللّهَ مُخْزِي الْكَافِرِينَ (2)
وَأَذَانٌ مِّنَ اللّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ إِلَى النَّاسِ يَوْمَ الْحَجِّ الأَكْبَرِ أَنَّ اللّهَ بَرِيءٌ مِّنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ وَرَسُولُهُ فَإِن تُبْتُمْ فَهُوَ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ وَإِن تَوَلَّيْتُمْ فَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّكُمْ غَيْرُ مُعْجِزِي اللّهِ وَبَشِّرِ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ بِعَذَابٍ أَلِيمٍ (3)
إِلاَّ الَّذِينَ عَاهَدتُّم مِّنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ ثُمَّ لَمْ يَنقُصُوكُمْ شَيْئًا وَلَمْ يُظَاهِرُواْ عَلَيْكُمْ أَحَدًا فَأَتِمُّواْ إِلَيْهِمْ عَهْدَهُمْ إِلَى مُدَّتِهِمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُتَّقِينَ (4)
فَإِذَا انسَلَخَ الأَشْهُرُ الْحُرُمُ فَاقْتُلُواْ الْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمْ وَخُذُوهُمْ وَاحْصُرُوهُمْ وَاقْعُدُواْ لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ فَإِن تَابُواْ وَأَقَامُواْ الصَّلاَةَ وَآتَوُاْ الزَّكَاةَ فَخَلُّواْ سَبِيلَهُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ (5)
وَإِنْ أَحَدٌ مِّنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ اسْتَجَارَكَ فَأَجِرْهُ حَتَّى يَسْمَعَ كَلاَمَ اللّهِ ثُمَّ أَبْلِغْهُ مَأْمَنَهُ ذَلِكَ بِأَنَّهُمْ قَوْمٌ لاَّ يَعْلَمُونَ (6)
كَيْفَ يَكُونُ لِلْمُشْرِكِينَ عَهْدٌ عِندَ اللّهِ وَعِندَ رَسُولِهِ إِلاَّ الَّذِينَ عَاهَدتُّمْ عِندَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ فَمَا اسْتَقَامُواْ لَكُمْ فَاسْتَقِيمُواْ لَهُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُتَّقِينَ (7)
-> Verse 1, when the incident happened Allah wanted Mohammad to make an agreement with those filthy kafiroon (very peaceful indeed), by telling them that they should stop their Mardi Gras around the House of Allah and act properly and decently and they will have immunity: (This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His Messenger towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement. , the fact about the Mardi Gras committed by the Kafiroon around the Kabba is very well known from the history records of the prophet.
-> Verse 2, - There is 4 sacred months in the lunar year, humans used to come to the Kabba in these 4 months, one month of these 4 is the one when the great Hajj is performed, it is like, in the other 3 months they used to do a minor version of Hajj, during this time also, the Muslims are not allowed to fight their enemy UNLESS IT IS A MUST, the verse is just mentioning those 4 months and also a warning to the Kafiroon regarding those 4 sacred months, So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers., this verse assuming that the kafirron will agree NOT to fight the believers in those 4 sacred months, it is not a sign of weakness on the believers side, it is only to follow the order of Allah not to fight in those 4 sacred months but to spend them worshipping Allah.
-> Verse 3, this is where the warning was given to the Kafiroon not to do the Tawaf around the Kabba Naked on the day of the great Hajj : And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters;, we can see straight after the warning that repenting from this evil act was on offer for them, therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, see, better for them, but if they insist and go back to this evil act around the Kabba then : and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve. similar warning to the warning in 9:2
-> Verse 4, things will start to become a bit clearer, sure some Kafiroon are intelligent enough to understand that what they were doing was evil, wrong and filthy, especially after the great warning was given accompanied with an offer to repent,- :Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfil their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty). , see how clear it is, you have to also know that the words : fulfil their agreement to the end of their term means that no Muslim should fight during these 4 months, but if they want to fight us to take the Kabba for example to do the Mardi Gras Tawaf then the agreement is to wait after the end of these 4 months then bring it on Kafiroon.
-> Verse 5, and if the 4 sacred months finish and the kafiroon want to bring it on, fight and kill us then we should fight and kill them :So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush,, but if they repent and stop fighting us, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. , you have to know that Salat mentioned in here does not really mean the Islamic Salat and the Islamic Zakat, in fact these practises were known to Noah and Abraham people, that is why the kafiroon were coming to the Kabba anyway, to make their Salat to their Idols and pay Zakat (sort of a tax to help the poor or low income earners) some however wanted to do thei Salat naked, therefore the enemy of Islam took it as they must be Muslims otherwise they should be killed, THIS IS 100% WRONG, because the Quran word for anyone to be a Muslim is Aslam or Aslamo, (I can show many examples if you want), so the above warning is only for the kafiroon to comply with the new law set by Allah after reclaiming the Kabba and the establishment of a strong Islamic state at the end of the prophet days, therefore and because we don't read the word Aslamo then they were not required to be Muslims, it is a personal choice to each individual but if you chose to not to be a Muslim, then respect yourself and do not attack or mock the Muslims, their religion, their holy places and their rituals.
For the money that they had to pay, come on, what is wrong with that?, it is the law of any land, the land became Islamic at that time and it must run as their leaders want, at least the leader at the time was not making flawed human laws, rather conveying the divine laws he received and was obliged to deliver it to all of us and compply with it at the same time, In Australia they deffrentiate between the Abo and other Australians would that make the Australian government abisive to the Non Abo?, indeed even under Australian tax laws, high earners pay 48% for every dollar they make compared to law earners who may pay a max of 30% for every dollar they make, see it is the law of any land that differntiate between its own citizens and everyone have no problem with that, I'm sure you are included.
-> Verse 6, will confirm what I said about verse 5, you will see that Allah is still referring to them as idolaters but is telling the believers that they MUST PROTECT THEM if they seek protection BUT THEY MUST COMPLY WITH THE AGREEMENT ABOVE IN VERSE 5 first, :And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him, the main reason to protect that peaceful Kafir is simply he/she may listen to the last message of our God: so that he may hear the Word of Allah,, Mohammad must also convey him to his place of safety: and afterward convey him to his place of safety. simply Allah wants us to help those peaceful Kafiroon because they lack the knowledge of Allah :That is because they are a folk who know not., see the merciful message from Allah to those ignorant bound to hell unless they bloody listen and understand what the high stakes are.
-> Verse 7, Allah is summing it up beautifully: How can there be an agreement for the idolaters with Allah and with His Messenger; except those with whom you made an agreement at the Sacred Mosque? So as long as they are true to you, be true to them; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty)., WHAT ELSE I CAN SAY?, So as long as they are true to you, be true to them; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty)
Moving on to verse 9:29, I brought in verse 9:28 as well for my walk through, 9:28 is about reclaiming the kabba, i.e. the kafiroon will not be allowed to come near it any more, this is a law from Allah regarding His House that one of His prophets (Abraham) built then was mocked and invaded by idol worshippers then reclaimed by another one of Allah prophets (Mohammed):
28- O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year; and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise.
29- Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
-> Verse 28, about reclaiming the Kabba : O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year;, don't take it literally as they are dirty, rather they are not clean spiritually and that is what the verse means, and because after this law was forced the believers will loose a lot of trade with the kafiroon who used to come to the Kabba for trade during these 4 sacred months, therefore Allah is warning the believers from worrying about loosing financial gains due to the new law: and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise.
- Verse 29, is simply the same law we discussed earlier, that the Kafiroon who insist on doing the wrong around the house of Allah and do not pay the tax of the land, then they have to be fought see the word used Qatalu, it is not Jahido, i.e. it is a case of restoring order by the rulers of the land, it is exactly as the French government don't want the Muslim women to wear Hijab because it is the law of the land they are living in and that law is only targeting the Muslim women, in regard to the Jeziah (Tax), well it is exactly as the tax that we pay now, and as I stated before, in Australia and indeed many western countries if not all, their tax systems differentiate between one and another based on many things, the bottom line is this, if those kafiroon want to live in the Islamic land at that time then they had to pay the tax imposed at that time on that land, which will guarantee their protection and safety as 9:6-7 clearly told us, those who don't want to pay the tax, will be prosecuted and put under custody exactly as it happens in any western country until they pay the evaded tax, and if they pay the tax the prophet must convey them to their place of safety and protect them :Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited[/u] (i.e. going around the kabba naked), nor follow the religion of truth (of course those who do that don't follow the religion of truth), out of those who have been given the Book (of oucrse they have to be believers in a god not the bloody atheists), until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection (they have to be in a state of sobjection after refusing to pay it then been forced to pay it exactly as it happens in any western country now days), the enemy of Islam however take 9:29 put of context and make it as if it is a general rule for Islamic doctrine, hmmm, ok fine with me then, if you live in a Muslim land, you have to pay the tax of that Muslim land, if you are not happy then tough luck, you need to leave and find another country where you can evade taxes yet if you get caught in any country evading tax, you will still be prosecuted and you will still pay it while you are in the state of subjection
The confused enemy of Islam will still come and say : no the verses are not talking about this specific incident, I say despite the numerous history records that support it and despite the whole sura is almost talking about this incident, the Quran in another location is clearly telling us that we should be peaceful to anyone who don't fight us on the account of our religion, this means all the people on any web site who fight us on the account of our religion must be fought using the same weapon they use which is the internet, it is better for them to reject the religion of Islam peacefully and gracefully and in that case we will live with them in peace and if they live in our land we must protect them and convey the to their places of safety if they seek so but after they comply with all laws in that land:
8- Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.
9- Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust. [The Quran ; 60:8-9]
لَا يَنْهَاكُمُ اللَّهُ عَنِ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ وَلَمْ يُخْرِجُوكُم مِّن دِيَارِكُمْ أَن تَبَرُّوهُمْ وَتُقْسِطُوا إِلَيْهِمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُقْسِطِينَ (8)
إِنَّمَا يَنْهَاكُمُ اللَّهُ عَنِ الَّذِينَ قَاتَلُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ وَأَخْرَجُوكُم مِّن دِيَارِكُمْ وَظَاهَرُوا عَلَى إِخْرَاجِكُمْ أَن تَوَلَّوْهُمْ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّهُمْ فَأُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الظَّالِمُونَ (9)
-> See, Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, the word Qatalkum which was used in 9:29, was translated here as make war, and because the order in this verse is to be peaceful with those who don't fight us on the account of our religion, then 9:29 confirms that it was talking about that specific incident and those kafiroon who rejected to pay the tax and rejected to comply with the new laws regarding the House of Allah after it was freed and its authority was returned to the people who believe in Allah (The God of that House)
-> Again 60:9 confirms that 9:29 was talking about that specific incident and not generally : Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, see, now apply this on 9:29:
If the kafiroon refuse to comply with the new rules governing the House of Allah, (I really wonder why they bother if they don't believe in the God of that House?) or If the kafiroon refuse to pay the tax at that time, then his means that the kafiroon are fighting us on the account of our religion in our Islamic land and must be fought and held accountable according to the laws
If they pay the tax as any good citizen does and comply with the current Islamic laws around the Kabba and within the Islamic land then we will live with them in peace and again we must protect them if they seek so, convey them to their places of safety and be true to them exactly as 9:6-7 told us
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject: Re: I need some help with this
ummmmm7 wrote:
The first Muslim was Muhammad? Abraham? Jacob? Moses?
Hello
It seems that you misunderstand what the word Muslim means, as well it seems you misunderstand what's the difference between a Mumin and a Muslim., a believer and a submitter respectively.
Firstly, the verb Aslam, means to submit to Allah, an important aspect of this submission to Allah is to accept any bad thing happens to us as it is a test/sign from Allah in this life, for example imagine you become blind, lose a leg, lose a child, get hit with cancer or many other horrible diseases, etc etc?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦. the examples of the bad things that may happen to us are unlimited, for a Muslim (a submitter) when the bad things happen then quickly that Muslim should realize that it has to be a message from Allah, either for a bad deed that was done by the Muslim and Allah is helping that Muslim to realize it quickly, or even just a mere test by Allah to that Muslim to test his/her Islam , either way, a Muslim (a submitter to Allah) should know it has to be from Allah. and based on that, the Muslim can either rectify any errors or just show patience and keep seeking mercy from Allah.
A Muslim is the highest level of belief, i.e. a Muslim (a submitter) is higher than a Mumin (a believer), the Quran confirms this fact in numerous verses, a Mumin (believer) just believes while a Muslim (submitter) needs to show actions to prove that belief
Every Muslim is a believer but not every believer is a Muslim, based on this fact that to be a Muslim (a submitter to Allah) is the highest level of belief then all messengers and prophets must have been Muslims, i.e. all messengers and prophets must have submitted to Allah, indeed one of them showed signs of impatience (Yunis) which should never be expected from a prophet so Allah punished him bad and made a whale to swallow him, and he was only let out after he sincerely repented and continued his mission that he was sent for.
After making this important point clear, let me see what you have brought in to support your allegation that this is a clear cut mistake in the Quran:
ummmmm7 wrote:
A. "And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam," (39:12).
[The Quran ; 39:12]
-> Of course the Quran statement is accurate, Mohammed was ordered to be the first of Muslims i.e. was ordered to be the first to follow the message of the Quran, i.e. was ordered to be the first to submit to the message of Allah in the Quran. Has he done it or not?, the verse above never said it, IT ONLY SAID THAT MOHAMMED SAID: I WAS ORDERED TO BE THE FIRST OF MUSLIMS. However we can ASSUME that he followed that order.
ummmmm7 wrote:
B. "When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143).
[The Quran ; 7:143]
-> Well, 7:143 never said that Moses is the first Muslim neither 39:12 said about Mohammed as such as I explained, See, the above verse only said the Moses is the first of believers, it never said that Moses was the first of Muslims, on the other hand yes Moses was the first to believe in what Allah sent to him (The Torah) and even if the verse above said the Moses was the first Muslim, then yes the assumed statement is still accurate because Moses was the first Muslim (submitter) to follow the message of the Torah, i.e. submit to the message of Allah in the Torah.
Now 39:12 can never be compared with 7:143 because:
-> 39:12 stated that Mohammed said he was ordered to be the first of Muslims (submitters)
-> 7:143 stated that Moses said that he was the first of the Mumins (believers)
ummmmm7 wrote:
C. "And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam," (2:132).
It seems to me that you totally got all those 3 verses wrong, firstly verse 39:12 said the Mohammed was ordered to be the first of Muslims, but verse 7:143 never said that Moses was the first of Muslims (submitters) nor it said that Moses was ordered to be the first of Muslims (submitters), rather it said that Moses said that he was the first of Mumins (believers), that does not mean that he was not a Muslim (a submitter), rather 7:143 never discussed Moses submission status.
-> Now in the last verse you brought to support your allegation, again 2:132 never said that Ibrahim was the first of Muslims nor it said that Jacob was the first of Muslims, it only said that Ibrahim said to his children Not to die before they become Muslims, i.e. Not to die before they submit to Allah, Jacob did the same as well, he told his children: Not to die before they become Muslims , i.e. Not to die before they submit to Allah, the verse above never said that Ibrahim or Jacob was the first of Muslims, but EVEN if 2:132 said that Ibrahim or Jacob was the first of Muslims, the same argument applies, i.e. they were the first to submit to Allah message sent to them.
See, this allegation of who is the first of Muslims is nothing but dust in thin air
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Hello,
Let me have a look at the next allegation:
ummmmm7 wrote:
Does Allah forgive or not forgive those who worship false gods?
Firstly Allah does what he wants:
Of those messengers, some of whom We have caused to excel others, and of whom there are some unto whom Allah spake, while some of them He exalted (above others) in degree; and We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty) and We supported him with the holy Spirit. And if Allah had so wiled it, those who followed after them would not have fought one with another after the clear proofs had come unto them. But they differed, some of them believing and some disbelieving. And if Allah had so willed it, they would not have fought one with another; but Allah doeth what He will. [The Quran ; 2:253]
تِلْكَ الرُّسُلُ فَضَّلْنَا بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ مِّنْهُم مَّن كَلَّمَ اللّهُ وَرَفَعَ بَعْضَهُمْ دَرَجَاتٍ وَآتَيْنَا عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ الْبَيِّنَاتِ وَأَيَّدْنَاهُ بِرُوحِ الْقُدُسِ وَلَوْ شَاء اللّهُ مَا اقْتَتَلَ الَّذِينَ مِن بَعْدِهِم مِّن بَعْدِ مَا جَاءتْهُمُ الْبَيِّنَاتُ وَلَكِنِ اخْتَلَفُواْ فَمِنْهُم مَّنْ آمَنَ وَمِنْهُم مَّن كَفَرَ وَلَوْ شَاء اللّهُ مَا اقْتَتَلُواْ وَلَكِنَّ اللّهَ يَفْعَلُ مَا يُرِيدُ (253)
-> See, ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? And if Allah had so willed it, they would not have fought one with another; but Allah doeth what He will.?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
In the following verse, we see a strange rule forced on us, the rule is while we are hurum (doing hajj) we are not allowed to hunt, WHY?, because Allah makes the rules the way He wills:
O ye who believe! Fulfil your indentures. The beast of cattle is made lawful unto you (for food) except that which is announced unto you (herein), game being unlawful when ye are on the pilgrimage. Lo! Allah ordaineth that which pleaseth Him. [The Quran ; 5:1]
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ أَوْفُواْ بِالْعُقُودِ أُحِلَّتْ لَكُم بَهِيمَةُ الأَنْعَامِ إِلاَّ مَا يُتْلَى عَلَيْكُمْ غَيْرَ مُحِلِّي الصَّيْدِ وَأَنتُمْ حُرُمٌ إِنَّ اللّهَ يَحْكُمُ مَا يُرِيدُ (1)
-. See, ?????????????????????¢?? being unlawful when ye are on the pilgrimage. Lo! Allah ordaineth that which pleaseth Him.?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
In the next verse we read clearly that the losers will abide in hell unless Allah wants something else to happen, WHY? Again, this is what He wants:
106: Those who are wretched shall be in the Fire: There will be for them therein (nothing but) the heaving of sighs and sobs:
107: Abiding therein so long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord please; surely your Lord is the mighty doer of what He intends. [The Quran ; 11:106-107]
فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ شَقُواْ فَفِي النَّارِ لَهُمْ فِيهَا زَفِيرٌ وَشَهِيقٌ (106)
خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا مَا دَامَتِ السَّمَاوَاتُ وَالأَرْضُ إِلاَّ مَا شَاء رَبُّكَ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ فَعَّالٌ لِّمَا يُرِيدُ (107)
-> See, ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? Abiding therein so long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord please;?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, this is because :?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? surely your Lord is the mighty doer of what He intends.?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
The above is confirmed again, the losers will abide in hell unless Allah wants otherwise:
And on the day when He shall gather them all together: O assembly of jinn! you took away a great part of mankind. And their friends from among the men shall say: Our Lord! some of us profited by others and we have reached our appointed term which Thou didst appoint for us. He shall say: The fire is your abode, to abide in it, except as Allah is pleased; surely your Lord is Wise, Knowing. [The Quran ; 6:128]
وَيَوْمَ يِحْشُرُهُمْ جَمِيعًا يَا مَعْشَرَ الْجِنِّ قَدِ اسْتَكْثَرْتُم مِّنَ الإِنسِ وَقَالَ أَوْلِيَآؤُهُم مِّنَ الإِنسِ رَبَّنَا اسْتَمْتَعَ بَعْضُنَا بِبَعْضٍ وَبَلَغْنَا أَجَلَنَا الَّذِيَ أَجَّلْتَ لَنَا قَالَ النَّارُ مَثْوَاكُمْ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا إِلاَّ مَا شَاء اللّهُ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ حَكِيمٌ عَليمٌ (128)
-> See, ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? He shall say: The fire is your abode, to abide in it, except as Allah is pleased;?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
As Allah desired that fire will be the punishment for the losers, He also desired to reward the winners with heavens beneath which rivers flows, WHY?. Because He does what wants:
Surely Allah will cause those who believe and do good deeds to enter gardens beneath which rivers flow, surely Allah does what He pleases. [The Quran ; 22:14]
إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُدْخِلُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ جَنَّاتٍ تَجْرِي مِن تَحْتِهَا الْأَنْهَارُ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يَفْعَلُ مَا يُرِيدُ (14)
-> See, ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? Surely Allah will cause those who believe and do good deeds to enter gardens beneath which rivers flow?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, WHY?, well ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? surely Allah does what He pleases.?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
The winners also will abide in the heaven unless Allah wants otherwise:
And as to those who are made happy, they shall be in the garden, abiding in it as long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord please; a gift which shall never be cut off. [The Quran ; 11:108]
وَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ سُعِدُواْ فَفِي الْجَنَّةِ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا مَا دَامَتِ السَّمَاوَاتُ وَالأَرْضُ إِلاَّ مَا شَاء رَبُّكَ عَطَاء غَيْرَ مَجْذُوذٍ (108)
-> See, ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? abiding in it as long as the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord please;?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
In the next example, let?????????????????????¢??s read what Allah says about Himself, not what others say about Him:
12: Surely the might of your Lord is great.
13: Surely He it is Who originates and reproduces,
14: And He is the Forgiving, the Loving,
15: Lord of the Throne of Glory,
16: Doer of what He will. [The Quran ; 85:12-16]
إِنَّ بَطْشَ رَبِّكَ لَشَدِيدٌ (12)
إِنَّهُ هُوَ يُبْدِئُ وَيُعِيدُ (13)
وَهُوَ الْغَفُورُ الْوَدُودُ (14)
ذُو الْعَرْشِ الْمَجِيدُ (15)
فَعَّالٌ لِّمَا يُرِيدُ (16)
-> ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? Surely the might of your Lord is great.?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
-> ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? Surely He it is Who originates and reproduces,?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
-> ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? And He is the Forgiving, the Loving,?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
->?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? Lord of the Throne of Glory,?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
=> AND ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? Doer of what He will.?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
We have read above, that Allah does this and that, now can we ask, why He does this and that?, well, if He is the God then sure we can?????????????????????¢??t:
He cannot be questioned concerning what He does and they shall be questioned. [The Quran ; 21:23]
لَا يُسْأَلُ عَمَّا يَفْعَلُ وَهُمْ يُسْأَلُونَ (23)
-> See, ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? He cannot be questioned concerning what He does?????????????????????¢??????????????????????
After I made the above clear, let me see what you have to say:
ummmmm7 wrote:
A. "Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).
upi said nothing really, you just quoted the verse while failing to deliver your argument, let me look at the verse in Arabic:
وَلَقَدْ كُذِّبَتْ رُسُلٌ مِّن قَبْلِكَ فَصَبَرُواْ عَلَى مَا كُذِّبُواْ وَأُوذُواْ حَتَّى أَتَاهُمْ نَصْرُنَا وَلاَ مُبَدِّلَ لِكَلِمَاتِ اللّهِ وَلَقدْ جَاءكَ مِن نَّبَإِ الْمُرْسَلِينَ (34)
[The Quran ; 6:34]
-> The verse above tells : لاَ مُبَدِّلَ لِكَلِمَاتِ اللّهِ , La Mubaddil Lekalimat Allah, i.e. there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. as translated by Shakir (I guess), this is actually the wrong translation, the word Mubaddil should mean CHANGER, i.e. someone who changes something to another, therefore the proper translation should be No changer to Allah words, this does not mean Allah can?????????????????????¢??t change His words because Allah can not be included with those who try to change His words, for example, when Allah sent the angels to destroy the people of Lut, prophet Ibrahim pledged for their lives, he was ordered to stop it because the decree of Allah can not be changed by any other entity BUT ALLAH, i.e. it is Allah who will be the decision maker to change His words or not, no one can interfere with that. At the end of the day Allah Himself can change His words because He does what He wants and He can not be questioned to what He does as I have shown earlier.
ummmmm7 wrote:
B. "The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all, (6:115).
You did the exact same, quoted the verse and failed to present your argument
Here is the Arabic verse:
وَتَمَّتْ كَلِمَتُ رَبِّكَ صِدْقًا وَعَدْلاً لاَّ مُبَدِّلِ لِكَلِمَاتِهِ وَهُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ (115)
[The Quran ; 6:115]
-> Again the word used is [size20] مُبَدِّلِ [/size], Mubaddil, i.e. Changer, i.e. No changer to Allah words, again that does not include Him because He told us that He does what He wants when He wants without being questionable.
If the verse said: I (Allah) won?????????????????????¢??t change my words, then you might have had a point but nor 6:116 neither 6:34 said as such, both said No changer to Allah words, and Allah can not be included with those who want to change His words, i.e. Allah Himself can change His words any time He wishes whenever He desires without being questioned as He told us about Himself.
ummmmm7 wrote:
C. None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?" (2:106).
For the third time you just quoted a verse without explaining how all these verse contradict each others, let me bring the Arabic text:
مَا نَنسَخْ مِنْ آيَةٍ أَوْ نُنسِهَا نَأْتِ بِخَيْرٍ مِّنْهَا أَوْ مِثْلِهَا أَلَمْ تَعْلَمْ أَنَّ اللّهَ عَلَىَ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ (106)
[The Quran ; 2:106]
-> The verse here is not talking about the WORDS (Kalimat) of Allah being abolished and replaced or being forgotten and replaced , rather the verse above is talking about A SIGN (Ayah) from Allah being abolished and replaced or being forgotten and replaced, so you have no point from the first place to compare Ayah with Kalimat, however let me assume for argument sake that the verse above is talking about the WORDS (Kalimat) of Allah being abolished and replaced or being forgotten and replaced, what is wrong with that?, don?????????????????????¢??t forget that Allah told us that He does what he wants whenever He desires without being questioned, also don?????????????????????¢??t forget that Allah told us in both 6:116 and 6:34 which you presented earlier No changer to Allah words, and Allah can not be included in those who want to change His own words.
You have no point so far
ummmmm7 wrote:
D. When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not," (16:101).
For the fourth time you just quoted verses without telling us how they constitute a clear cut contradiction, let me bring the Arabic text:
وَإِذَا بَدَّلْنَا آيَةً مَّكَانَ آيَةٍ وَاللّهُ أَعْلَمُ بِمَا يُنَزِّلُ قَالُواْ إِنَّمَا أَنتَ مُفْتَرٍ بَلْ أَكْثَرُهُمْ لاَ يَعْلَمُونَ (101)
[The Quran ; 16:101]
-> Same argument for 2:106 applies to 16:101, the verse in here is talking about Allah changing an Ayah (sign) instead of another Ayah (sign), while the first two verse you posted (6:116 and 6:34) are talking about Kalimat (words) of Allah, so please don?????????????????????¢??t compare apple with oranges, but for the second time let me assume for argument sake that 16:101 is talking about replacing Kalimat (words) Allah with other Kalimat (words), so what?, again Allah does what He wants when He wants without being questionable, you can see clearly that the word used in 16:101 is Mubaddil, in here we can see verb form of the word is attached to the damir Na as follow Baddalna, بَدَّلْنَا , i.e. We Change, I.e. the one who is doing the action of replacing is Allah however in the first two verses you posted the word used was Mubaddil مُبَدِّلَ , i.e. another changer but Allah, again If Allah said I won?????????????????????¢??t change my words then you might have had a point however and indeed you have absolutely no point because Allah never said I won?????????????????????¢??t change my words
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